RSN to finally get new subs?
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http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=211833&messageid=1122798388&lp=1122800430
saw it over at WAFF.unconfirmed of course.What exactly are the capabilities of the Vastorgotland class? -
is it necessary???
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very good.
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new subs????? so fast....... ??
think the buying of sjoorman class is waste of money -
The two sjoormen class subs are to be decommissioned in 2010. Seriously, the Sjoormen class subs are used only as a training platform for singapore.
The vastorgotland class are Air Indpendent Propulsion submarines. It is thought that singapore will get two of them from Sweden. This subs are new in submarine terms. The subs are launched in 1987-1990. The new subs are a major destabilizing factor as we will be the only ones operating AIP subs in the region. It is also expected that singapore will get the eurotorp 2000.
Each of ther subs are expected to cost about 300 million.
Actually, it is suspected that Singapore crew is already training on it.
Recently, Singapore participated in a navy exercise in the pacific as part of the swedish contingent. Apparently, our crew surprised the Americans as we were able to stalk and "launch a torpedo" on one of their carriers.
The reason why AIP subs are superior:
1) Conventional diesel subs have a weakness, they need to snorkel to renew their air. If not the air is too stale in the submarines, thus about one a week they need to surface to snorkel.
2)AIP subs carry pure oxygen tanks to substitute the air. They carry enough air to allow it to remain submerged for up to 8 weeks.
3) they are quieter than nuclear subs. -
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Sg brought 2 A19 sub from sweden for the cost of US$ 300 million include of AIP upgrade. (225 million for 2 sub and 75million for upgrading AIP) This sub are are second hand and are around 17 years old. A new sub will cost around $250 million each without AIP.
It is around 40% cheaper then a new one. Do you think is a good buy? Sg has aready train with it and it is operational ready. It even had a ex. with US naval. Including training, I think the price is ok.Originally posted by Sardaukar:http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=211833&messageid=1122798388&lp=1122800430
saw it over at WAFF.unconfirmed of course.What exactly are the capabilities of the Vastorgotland class? -
Shouldn't that be A17 instead of A19? A19 is the Gotland class, A17 the Vastergotland.Originally posted by UTAS:Sg brought 2 A19 sub from sweden for the cost of US$ 300 million include of AIP upgrade. (225 million for 2 sub and 75million for upgrading AIP) This sub are are second hand and are around 17 years old. A new sub will cost around $250 million each without AIP.
It is around 40% cheaper then a new one. Do you think is a good buy? Sg has aready train with it and it is operational ready. It even had a ex. with US naval. Including training, I think the price is ok. -
The reason why AIP subs are superior:
Actually conventional diesel sub snorkel to re-charge their batteries. Re-charging is done by running the generators onboard which needs air. If the submarine did not snorkel while charging batteries, the air supply in the submarine will be depleted very fast and the crew will die of suffocation. This is suspected to be what happened to the China Ming class sub 371 in yellow sea in 2003.
1) Conventional diesel subs have a weakness, they need to snorkel to renew their air. If not the air is too stale in the submarines, thus about one a week they need to surface to snorkel.
2)AIP subs carry pure oxygen tanks to substitute the air. They carry enough air to allow it to remain submerged for up to 8 weeks.
3) they are quieter than nuclear subs.
Of course, you also get a chance to ventilate the sub, but thats not the main reason.
All AIP sub carries liquid oxygen in tanks (and hydrogen in tanks in the case of fuel cells AIP) so that the AIP engines do not need to breath air for combustion. -
I feel sorry for malaysia's scorpene subs.
They should have researched more before jumping into the deal. -
MY bought almost everything more expensive than others, perhaps some of it went into the pockets of cronies etc.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:I feel sorry for malaysia's scorpene subs.
They should have researched more before jumping into the deal.
For example , the 2 Scorpene non AIP Basic models cost them USD972 millions,
and SKorea got three AIP U214s for only USD1.12bil.
That's mean MY paid USD486mil per non AIP boat,
and SKorea paid USD373mil per AIP boat!!!
A difference of USD113mil per unit !!!!
Although, S Korean are licenced producing them in Korea, and perhaps need lesser training than MY's newbies, but still fxxking expensive especially they are non AIP variant!!!!
As for the 2 Sodermanland class (upgraded AIP Vastergotland class ), that cost only USD300mil( not sure how you guys know abt it, afterall it is not officially announced), I think certainly worth it, becos I believe it will give us the edge over the navies of the region for at least 1 decade or so.
In fact, I think our 2 Sodermanland class will be operationally ready before 2010 if we decide now, in fact upgrade per boat only take one year, so we could have one delivered to us by the end of 2006 and the other 2007, so by 2008~09 , they should be both operationally ready .
And as for MY, their 2 boats will be delivered by the end of 2009, at most they will be both operationally ready by the end of of 2010, most likely 2011 & later, depending on the crew. -
Originally posted by gary1910:MY bought almost everything more expensive than others, perhaps some of it went into the pockets of cronies etc.
For example , the 2 Scorpene non AIP Basic models cost them USD972 millions,
and SKorea got three AIP U214s for only USD1.12bil.
That's mean MY paid USD486mil per non AIP boat,
and SKorea paid USD373mil per AIP boat!!!
A difference of USD113mil per unit !!!!
Although, S Korean are licenced producing them in Korea, and perhaps need lesser training than MY's newbies, but still fxxking expensive especially they are non AIP variant!!!!
As for the 2 Sodermanland class (upgraded AIP Vastergotland class ), that cost only USD300mil( not sure how you guys know abt it, afterall it is not officially announced), I think certainly worth it, becos I believe it will give us the edge over the navies of the region for at least 1 decade or so.
In fact, I think our 2 Sodermanland class will be operationally ready before 2010 if we decide now, in fact upgrade per boat only take one year, so we could have one delivered to us by the end of 2006 and the other 2007, so by 2008~09 , they should be both operationally ready .
And as for MY, their 2 boats will be delivered by the end of 2009, at most they will be both operationally ready by the end of of 2010, most likely 2011 & later, depending on the crew.
Malaysia will bang their head on the wall. My should revise how it spend the money on future weapon acquisition. US300 million for 2 upgrade AIP 17 years old sub, I think the price is ok but the most important is that it will benefit and suit Sg v well. Save Sg lot of money and time familiarisation.
The Tawain will like to buy it. But the Sweden will not sell it to them. -
Malaysia will bang their head on the wall. My should revise how it spend the money on future weapon acquisition. US300 million for 2 upgrade AIP 17 years old sub, I think the price is ok but the most important is that it will benefit and suit Sg v well. Save Sg lot of money and time familiarisation.
The Tawain will like to buy it. But the Sweden will not sell it to them. -
A waste of money?Originally posted by c0ol_blu3z:new subs????? so fast....... ??
think the buying of sjoorman class is waste of money
U got read this or not?
http://sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=144001&page=1 -
Ya know what,
My bet are that Sg is currently training on the new subs in sweden already. -
wah.. how come ur guess so accurate? where u from ar? lolzOriginally posted by zquek:Ya know what,
My bet are that Sg is currently training on the new subs in sweden already. -
Recently a report from US regarding the Swedish detachment of AIP Gotland subs blurted out that a Singaporean crew(part of the swedish detachment) scored a kill against the aircraft carrier. Yes you read me correctly. So i guess we must have been training on the subs. This is because only the Vastorgotland subs and Gotland subs are suitable for both baltic and warm waters. Yea
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Do you have the source for that?Originally posted by zquek:Recently a report from US regarding the Swedish detachment of AIP Gotland subs blurted out that a Singaporean crew(part of the swedish detachment) scored a kill against the aircraft carrier. Yes you read me correctly. So i guess we must have been training on the subs. This is because only the Vastorgotland subs and Gotland subs are suitable for both baltic and warm waters. Yea -
Apparently heard that they sneaked into the CBG and was in periscope AND firing range of the Carrier.And that was with the Sjoormens only.Originally posted by zquek:The two sjoormen class subs are to be decommissioned in 2010. Seriously, the Sjoormen class subs are used only as a training platform for singapore.
The vastorgotland class are Air Indpendent Propulsion submarines. It is thought that singapore will get two of them from Sweden. This subs are new in submarine terms. The subs are launched in 1987-1990. The new subs are a major destabilizing factor as we will be the only ones operating AIP subs in the region. It is also expected that singapore will get the eurotorp 2000.
Each of ther subs are expected to cost about 300 million.
Actually, it is suspected that Singapore crew is already training on it.
Recently, Singapore participated in a navy exercise in the pacific as part of the swedish contingent. Apparently, our crew surprised the Americans as we were able to stalk and "launch a torpedo" on one of their carriers.
The reason why AIP subs are superior:
1) Conventional diesel subs have a weakness, they need to snorkel to renew their air. If not the air is too stale in the submarines, thus about one a week they need to surface to snorkel.
2)AIP subs carry pure oxygen tanks to substitute the air. They carry enough air to allow it to remain submerged for up to 8 weeks.
3) they are quieter than nuclear subs. -
It was in Militaryphotos.netOriginally posted by 21Alpha:Do you have the source for that?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52849&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=16
"Posted by Signatory : The Swedish success in the Baltic sea, North sea and especially the big mediterranian exercise (Sweden had 100% win, 0 losses in 'Death match' engagements by and against sea and air forces. With the sub HMS Halland of Gotland class) did make the Americans interested but it wasn't until a Singaporian Swedish-trained, and equipped with a Swedish sub (altho actually not of Gotland class) penetrated the defense of a U.S CVN that the bells really rang over there... for the first time, a submarine stood ready to fire its torpedoes against a US nuclear aircraft carrier.
You're right, it's not for any small reason they pull a non-NATO member over half the world for year long exercises. In order to prepare for the future, you need to train and fight with the best. " -
Where did the US$300mil figure come from ? Any source ?
No kidding?