Revolvers vs. Semi-auto pistols
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MG>
In what situation can you discharge a firearm in public?
In what sitaution can you shoot another person in self-defense?
Let's say in the situation where the 2 hobos approached you and your friend. Obviously if one of them pulls out a gun you would shoot him and deal with it later. But let's say that...
* they did not obey your request to move away and continue to approach you - but unarmed, can you leagally shoot them? Or do you have to fire a warning shot in the air first? (Is it legal to fire a warning shot?)
* one reaches into his coat but you don't know what he's reaching for? He ignores your request to freeze. Can you legally shoot him straightaway or fire a warning shot? Or do you have to wait till you see what he's got in his hand? It could be a flask of cheap whisky.
* one of them pulls out a knife and continues to approach you? Warning shot or shoot straightaway? -
>>TV Dog
I live in Dallas, Texas... the conceal carry permit allows you to pack a pistol or any firearms in public as long as you conceal the weapon. certain areas still do not allow CHL ( conceal handgun lisence) to carry in like court house, school, professional sports event area,...
To shoot, well, it is a last defence type situation. When you are " in fear of your life" your pistol can be an equilizer, you are back to a street and have nowhere to run, that type of situation!
Texas do have some rules whereby if you are a traveller crossing 1 or more countyline, you can legally have a loaded weapon in your car! Incase of car jacking etc... not saying the crime rate is bad ! but it gives you the insurance policy when things get ugly.
I have a lot of law enforcement freinds and some stories we hear is very interestiing.. most situation get resolve when a law abiding citizen got tangle with gang bangers and the mere gesture that " if you come over closer, I will have use my GLock " type usually dissolve alot of bad situation.
DAveC! -
Dave
I see in some movies where the rear window of the pickup truck has hunting rifle hanging there.
Is that Texas or Canada? -
In what situation can you discharge a firearm in public?
The laws governing the justified use of deadly force in self-defense vary from state to state, but can usually be distilled into three primary requirements:
In what sitaution can you shoot another person in self-defense?
1. The threat has be of sufficient magnitude as to cause you to be in fear for your life.
2. The threat must have ignored any and all demands by you to not approach any closer.
3. It is not possible for you to run away from the threat or to take any other reasonable action(s) to de-escalate the situation.* they did not obey your request to move away and continue to approach you - but unarmed, can you leagally shoot them? Or do you have to fire a warning shot in the air first? (Is it legal to fire a warning shot?)
If all they did was approach us and nothing else, then I'd be in legal hot soup if I shot them, especially if we had the option of running away. A warning shot is a definite no-no as that would land you in jail on a charge of reckless endangerment, even if it did succeed in de-escalating the situation.* one reaches into his coat but you don't know what he's reaching for? He ignores your request to freeze. Can you legally shoot him straightaway or fire a warning shot? Or do you have to wait till you see what he's got in his hand? It could be a flask of cheap whisky.
Exactly. He could just be reaching for a flask of liquor. Or a weapon. Shooting him for the mere act of reaching into his pocket would give the prosecuting attorney a field day at my expense.
However, if he pulls out a gun or knife and points it at me while still demanding money, then all bets are off.* one of them pulls out a knife and continues to approach you? Warning shot or shoot straightaway?
Two in the chest, one in the head, then call the police and deal with the unpleasant legal consequences.
My friend's car was parked at the extreme end of the ramp, with the negroes between us and the stairwell (the only possible escape route). They continued to approach us in a menacing fashion, demanding cash. You could argue that we could possibly have de-escalated the situation by handing our wallets over to them, but what guarantee would we have that they wouldn't inflict grievous bodlily harm on us after that?
MG -
Pardon my being so curious.
Is it legal to shoot an unarmed person/s who doesn't heed your request to stop approaching you? They're unarmed but continues to approach with no sign of wanting to stop.
What is the legal thing to do, and what would you have done? - laws aside.
I find that not being able to fire a warning shot in the air defeats the purpose of carrying a firearm.
In this situation probably a can of mace would be much more appropriate than a pistol. Or a pistol that comes with a pepper spray attachment underslung like M203 could be a cool idea.
Any famous cases of folks shooting would be muggers that you can think of?
I remember one tragic incident where a Japanese exchange student was shot dead when he walked into the wrong house for a party. He probably didn't understand the language and the threat he was facing as Japan is an even safer country than Singapore. -
Yes, that is in Texas ! and most of the conservative republican states. in the rural part of the country, people carry shotguns and ranch guns to take care of their farm land.. places like West Texas which I have a few of my good freinds stays, that they have cattle, sheep, and other farm animals... there are lots of pest like Cayotes, wild cats, rattle snake and sometime Moutain lions that can cause a lot of harm to the aniamls and even humans! thus farmers usually pack their Ruger Mini14 , Winchester 94 or 12 gauge.
When I visit my freinds, we usually go hunt cayotes with my AK or M16 becasue cayotes is a big problem in west texas! too many of them! In fact the famers paid me $10 for each cayotes!
Ferra Hogs is another problem in Texas! these are domestic pigs that went wild, they tear up plow fields ..... our 5.56do not do much damage to them,, usually hunt them with 308. ( 7.62x51 NATO) or the Russian 7.62x54R
12 guages shot gun works best for rattle snakes!
DaveC -
During discussion with my law enforment freinds, if you feel threaten and is in "fear of your life" like say a man , much bigger and stronger than you, ( he may be unarm) but U warn him verbally to not come closer and he did ! than you are justify to take necessary actions to stop the threat becasue he escalate the threat .
Also, if say you are in your house, in Texas , your house is the Alamo! if he enter your house without your consent and you are justifiable to shoot the intruder.
Like what Gisborn say, 2 in the chest , 1 in the head....
DaveC! -
Hi MGOriginally posted by Meia Gisborn:You're joking, right? You've obviously been watching far too many Hollywood action flicks.
Some states have "open carry" handgun permit laws, while others require that the handgun be concealed. Even if the carry law makes no specific provision that the handgun be concealed, it is still a good idea not to carry openly in public as people around you may react negatively to seeing a firearm. LE agencies in states with "open carry" handgun laws have gone on record as saying they may not be able to legally prevent you from carrying openly, but they'll nail you on other charges like creating a public disturbance.
Open carry can also make you a potential target for criminals. Consider this scenario: if an armed criminal walks into a convenience store with the intent of robbing it, and he sees a customer openly carrying a firearm, who do you think the criminal will shoot first?
It's best to be discreet and carry concealed, even if the state allows open carry.
As for waving a pistol around and firing randomly into the air, well, you can certainly do that... until the first round from an LEO's gun takes you down.
Here is a link to the FAQ section of Minnesota's handgun carry law. It is representative of similar laws in other states, and might help dispel any misconceptions you have about carrying handguns here.
In most states, any law-abiding citizen or PR can legally purchase and own firearms approved for sale in this country, without need of any kind of permit. But if you want to carry a hangun (concealed or openly) in public, you need the relevant permit (the exception being states like Vermont which allow you to carry openly without the need for any kind of permit).
MG
Is it illegal to carry a spring clip? I'm not too sure about the mechanism's name but its like a spring which propels the gun from a concealed location (e.g. within the sleeves of your shirt) into your hand. Yeah, I got that idea from a movie
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So it would be wise to say that the rural states are more open on unconcealed gun ownership?Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:You're joking, right? You've obviously been watching far too many Hollywood action flicks.
Some states have "open carry" handgun permit laws, while others require that the handgun be concealed. Even if the carry law makes no specific provision that the handgun be concealed, it is still a good idea not to carry openly in public as people around you may react negatively to seeing a firearm. LE agencies in states with "open carry" handgun laws have gone on record as saying they may not be able to legally prevent you from carrying openly, but they'll nail you on other charges like creating a public disturbance.
Open carry can also make you a potential target for criminals. Consider this scenario: if an armed criminal walks into a convenience store with the intent of robbing it, and he sees a customer openly carrying a firearm, who do you think the criminal will shoot first?
It's best to be discreet and carry concealed, even if the state allows open carry.
As for waving a pistol around and firing randomly into the air, well, you can certainly do that... until the first round from an LEO's gun takes you down.
Here is a link to the FAQ section of Minnesota's handgun carry law. It is representative of similar laws in other states, and might help dispel any misconceptions you have about carrying handguns here.
In most states, any law-abiding citizen or PR can legally purchase and own firearms approved for sale in this country, without need of any kind of permit. But if you want to carry a hangun (concealed or openly) in public, you need the relevant permit (the exception being states like Vermont which allow you to carry openly without the need for any kind of permit).
MG
Just curious, did the Senate renew the Assault Weapons Ban legislation?Heard it was going to expire this year. -
$10 for a cayote? good money. these animals run around, how do you ensure not hit wrong target or someone?Originally posted by davechng:When I visit my freinds, we usually go hunt cayotes with my AK or M16 becasue cayotes is a big problem in west texas! too many of them! In fact the famers paid me $10 for each cayotes!
Ferra Hogs is another problem in Texas! these are domestic pigs that went wild, they tear up plow fields ..... our 5.56do not do much damage to them,, usually hunt them with 308. ( 7.62x51 NATO) or the Russian 7.62x54R
12 guages shot gun works best for rattle snakes!
DaveC -
wow im impressed....Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:You're joking, right? You've obviously been watching far too many Hollywood action flicks.
Some states have "open carry" handgun permit laws, while others require that the handgun be concealed. Even if the carry law makes no specific provision that the handgun be concealed, it is still a good idea not to carry openly in public as people around you may react negatively to seeing a firearm. LE agencies in states with "open carry" handgun laws have gone on record as saying they may not be able to legally prevent you from carrying openly, but they'll nail you on other charges like creating a public disturbance.
Open carry can also make you a potential target for criminals. Consider this scenario: if an armed criminal walks into a convenience store with the intent of robbing it, and he sees a customer openly carrying a firearm, who do you think the criminal will shoot first?
It's best to be discreet and carry concealed, even if the state allows open carry.
As for waving a pistol around and firing randomly into the air, well, you can certainly do that... until the first round from an LEO's gun takes you down.
Here is a link to the FAQ section of Minnesota's handgun carry law. It is representative of similar laws in other states, and might help dispel any misconceptions you have about carrying handguns here.
In most states, any law-abiding citizen or PR can legally purchase and own firearms approved for sale in this country, without need of any kind of permit. But if you want to carry a hangun (concealed or openly) in public, you need the relevant permit (the exception being states like Vermont which allow you to carry openly without the need for any kind of permit).
MG
then if lets say if you're in a situlation where there's a robber running away from...say a jewellery shop, then there's 2 policeman rushing to him and the robber shoot them both, are u authorized to shoot the robber for the police?
and when u shoot ppl for your own protection can u shoot the head and killing him in the process?
and do you wear a Kelvar?Then in emegency the armor can save u from bullets...
then you're allowed to carry pistol right?that means that shotgun is not allowed i presume?Only the rural farming are than can right?
BTW ever use or see a 10-GAUGE WINCHESTER LEVER-ACTION SHOTGUN? -
E.g. Mount your .5 rifle on the top of your ute.Use a scope and fire away..Originally posted by AF2005:$10 for a cayote? good money. these animals run around, how do you ensure not hit wrong target or someone? -
The 5.56 seems to work for this guy.Originally posted by davechng:Ferra Hogs is another problem in Texas! these are domestic pigs that went wild, they tear up plow fields ..... our 5.56do not do much damage to them,, usually hunt them with 308. ( 7.62x51 NATO) or the Russian 7.62x54R
DaveC
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The law would take an extremely dim view of your shooting an apparently unarmed person approaching you against your wishes, especially if you had the opportunity to run away from the confrontation. It would not matter even if, after the shooting, it was discovered that the aggressor did in fact have a weapon on his person.Originally posted by tvdog:Is it legal to shoot an unarmed person/s who doesn't heed your request to stop approaching you? They're unarmed but continues to approach with no sign of wanting to stop.
What is the legal thing to do, and what would you have done? - laws aside.
Remember, the law specifies the use of deadly force as the very last resort in self-defense.
As for what I would have done, if a clear and open escape route were available, I would probably have attempted to run away from the confrontation. If the aggressors gave chase and were catching up, that could be construed as an indication of malicious intent, and I probably would have drawn my pistol at that point.I find that not being able to fire a warning shot in the air defeats the purpose of carrying a firearm.
Where would the projectile from your warning shot land? In the adrenaline-charged heat of the situation, can you guarantee that your warning shot isn't going to strike an innocent bystander?
Firing a warning shot would most likely de-escalate the confrontation, but result in your being charged with reckless endangerment and your firearm being confiscated.
Besides, if the confrontation has degenerated to the point where you feel the need to fire a warning shot, you're probably already in grave danger and in fear for your life, in which case you really should be shooting at the aggressor.In this situation probably a can of mace would be much more appropriate than a pistol.
Several women I know carry mace or pepper spray as a means of self-defense.
Is mace or pepper spray available to the general public in Singapore?
MG -
Hello, DG.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Hi MG
Is it illegal to carry a spring clip? I'm not too sure about the mechanism's name but its like a spring which propels the gun from a concealed location (e.g. within the sleeves of your shirt) into your hand. Yeah, I got that idea from a movie
To the best of my knowledge, Minnesota's handgun law has no provisions specifying how a firearm is carried and/or presented. Practical considerations, however, would dictate that the firearm be properly concealed.
The mechanism you describe sounds like it might be unwieldy, uncomfortable and impractical in everyday carry. What if the mechanism accidentally triggers and presents the firearm? You might be charged with brandishing a weapon in public. What if the mechanism fails to present the firearm when you need to defend yourself, or you're unable to activate it in the stress of the moment? You might be very dead.
MG -
Hey, MG !
I have something to ask you
I have a friend in Texas, we were playing some online game when some mexicans broke into his house, is it legal to use firearms on the intruders although my friend was only 16 and has no firearm permit or what so ever ?
anyway, my friend broke his back and his beloved dog was crippled from the attack, the mexicans still disturb him from time to time
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HEh Raptor,
thats a good picture.... 223 can take them down if you hit them on the right spot... just thatwhen the 300 lb beast are charging you, I just would rather have a 30 caliber bullet.
IN East TExas area, you get lots of trees and undergrowth, Trees are not as tall or dense as the tropical Mandai forest! thus! someitmes engaging hogs is less than 75meter!
I've also seen some of my red neck freinds hunt with revolver ! But in my case, I would not want to take that chance!
.223 has its place.... but if there is a better choice, why not choose somthing better.
DaveC! -
IN texas, you do not have to get a conceal carry permit to own a firearm in the house.
IF someone enter your house without your consent and you verbally tell the guy to leave and he would not ! YOu can shoot him becasue he is violating your property and TExas have the rule that if you're in your house, that s the ALamo and you won;t be able to run away.
AS for your freind that is 16, they cannot legally go buy a pistol ( have to be 21 to buy a pistol) but shotgun and long rifle he can.
So! yes! he can technically ( if he has the firearms) take care of his intruder problem.
DaveC! -
IN texas, you do not have to get a conceal carry permit to own a firearm in the house.
IF someone enter your house without your consent and you verbally tell the guy to leave and he would not ! YOu can shoot him becasue he is violating your property and TExas have the rule that if you're in your house, that s the ALamo and you won;t be able to run away.
AS for your freind that is 16, they cannot legally go buy a pistol ( have to be 21 to buy a pistol) but shotgun and long rifle he can.
So! yes! he can technically ( if he has the firearms) take care of his intruder problem.
DaveC! -
Perhaps it would be better to say that rural states are more likely to not have concealment provisions in their handgun carry laws.Originally posted by LazerLordz:So it would be wise to say that the rural states are more open on unconcealed gun ownership?
The general populace still frighten rather easily at the sight of a firearm, though.Just curious, did the Senate renew the Assault Weapons Ban legislation?Heard it was going to expire this year.
From the AWBsunset.com website:
By statute, the prohibitions relating to semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices expired on September 13, 2004. As a result, certain sections of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and its implementing regulations, 27 CFR Part 478, are no longer in effect.
Good riddance to an ill-conceived and essentially useless law, I say!
MG -
That depends. Did the robber in any way endanger my life? If so, could I have easily escaped the danger by departing the area?Originally posted by ceecookie:then if lets say if you're in a situlation where there's a robber running away from...say a jewellery shop, then there's 2 policeman rushing to him and the robber shoot them both, are u authorized to shoot the robber for the police?
A handgun permit does not in any way deputize the bearer to engage in law enforcement activities; it is strictly for personal protection. The best thing you, as a permit holder, can do is leave law enforcement to those trained in it, and just be a good witness to the crime scene.
However, in the scenario you presented, a case could be made to justify the use of deadly force on your part, if it can be shown that the robber was likely to shoot innocent bystanders during the commission of the crime.and when u shoot ppl for your own protection can u shoot the head and killing him in the process?
If the three requirements for the use of deadly force in self-defense are met, the assumption is that you'll be drawing your weapon and shooting to stop the threat in the most effective manner possible, up to and including killing the aggressor. Handgun instructors generally recommend and teach the "two shots to the chest, one to the head" method of stopping a threat.and do you wear a Kelvar?Then in emegency the armor can save u from bullets...
Most municipalities in the US ban the use of body armor by civilians.then you're allowed to carry pistol right?that means that shotgun is not allowed i presume?Only the rural farming are than can right?
Even if a state's carry law does not specifically disallow firearms other than pistols, you'd have a hard time concealing a shotgun. It's simply not practical.
In most states, you can carry openly on private property, with no permit required.BTW ever use or see a 10-GAUGE WINCHESTER LEVER-ACTION SHOTGUN?
Nope. Shotguns aren't my cup of tea. I once fired a slug from a 12-gauge Winchester shotgun with a rifled barrel that left my shoulder sore for the better part of a week.
MG -
Naaah. Grenades.Originally posted by LazerLordz:E.g. Mount your .5 rifle on the top of your ute.Use a scope and fire away..
MG -
MG
After all that you've told me, I feel that carrying a gun is double-edged sword.
It would be great if everytime you pull out a gun the threat backs off.
But if I'm cornered and the (unarmed) thugs aren't impressed even if I point a gun at them, and I can't fire a warning shot, and if I shoot them I'll be in trouble cos they're not armed... wow...
So if I'm cornered, no escape route, being approached by 2 men, at what distance can I consider myself in grave danger and open fire in self defense?
For someone nervous enough to pull out a gun, that's a lot of computing to do. I defintely think the mace/pistol combination is a good idea.
Can you carry/conceal a taser in the US? -
After all that you've told me, I feel that carrying a gun is double-edged sword.
Precisely. That's why it should only be employed as the very last resort in self-defense.
It would be great if everytime you pull out a gun the threat backs off.
But if I'm cornered and the (unarmed) thugs aren't impressed even if I point a gun at them, and I can't fire a warning shot, and if I shoot them I'll be in trouble cos they're not armed... wow...
It is a double-edged sword because the use of deadly force, even if justified, can potentially land you in a legal nightmare. Your firearm will most likely be confiscated by the police and never returned to you. During the trial, the prosecuting attorney will likely try to paint you as a trigger-happy gun-toting maniac who shouldn't even be allowed to carry a mechanical pencil, let alone a firearm. You'll have to hire a competent criminal lawyer, at a cost of several thousands of dollars, to defend you. And even if the trial clears you, the family of the deceased bad guy will most likely institute a wrongful death civil lawsuit against you, and you'll once again have to retain a lawyer to defend you.
The instructor in our handgun safety class pointed out that a permit holder who had used his gun in self-defense would, on average, spend upwards of US$20,000 in legal expenses in the aftermath.
Damn lawyers...
However, he also pointed out that the overwhelming majority of confrontations involving permit holders drawing their pistols in self-defense, ended without shots being fired (as was the case with my confrontation in the parking ramp).So if I'm cornered, no escape route, being approached by 2 men, at what distance can I consider myself in grave danger and open fire in self defense?
That would depend on the distance the bad guy would have to be at to inflict bodily harm on you. If you're cornered and the bad guy pulled a gun and pointed it at you from a distance, you'd probably be justified in employing deadly force in defending yourself. If he pulled out a knife at that same distance, the court will likely take a dim view of your shooting him when he wasn't within range to do you harm. However, if he continued to advance towards you with the knife drawn and ignored demands from you to back off, I'd say you would be within your purview to use deadly force.For someone nervous enough to pull out a gun, that's a lot of computing to do. I defintely think the mace/pistol combination is a good idea.
This might come as a surprise to you, but the variety of mace available to the general public in the US legally cannot have the same potency as the mace used by LE agencies. Instead of incapacitating the aggressor, you'd just end up agitating him more, increasing the likelihood of his inflicting grievous bodily harm on you.
Can you carry/conceal a taser in the US?
Yes, tasers are available to civilians. However, most self-defense experts do not recommend using them, for the simple reason that you need to be in contact with the aggressor to use it.
Despite all the drawbacks, I would not give up legally carrying a pistol for my personal protection and safety. It has already possibly saved my life once, without requiring a shot to be fired. If, however, I find myself in a situation in which I have to pull the trigger as a last resort to save my life, I would not hesitate to do it. After all, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
MG -
So this would essentially mean that you guys would be in more danger from criminals with Tec-9s and stuff like that right?So in what way is the ban a bad thing?Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:From the AWBsunset.com website:
By statute, the prohibitions relating to semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices expired on September 13, 2004. As a result, certain sections of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and its implementing regulations, 27 CFR Part 478, are no longer in effect.
Good riddance to an ill-conceived and essentially useless law, I say!
MG