What are the possible weaknesses of our military?
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I think at the start of any wars there'll be a lot of enthusiasm for the fight as there will be all kinds of propaganda from all involved.
But soon, as the body bags start filling... attitudes will change.
However, I disagree that Singaporeans are so scared of fighting they'll AWOL.
I am actually quite optimistic that except for a small percentage, all will stand and fight.
Though I now live overseas, I'm quite sure I'll go back to join up should Singapore be in danger of being attacked. Not to say I am extremely brave or patriotic etc... In fact, I'm sure I'd be scared shxtless when the shooting starts.
But escaping or sitting it out would be unthinkable. I will forever live in shame of myself if I didn't. And you'd bring shame to your family and country.
For this same reason, I feel those people who "keng" to get out of combat jobs are scum. -
I have no problem with his size as well. But I noticed that some of our generals hold appts as board members in govt related organization. Eg, CDF is a board member in NUS. Former CDF is a board member of SingTel. I don't think this is right though the govt is very open about it.Originally posted by tvdog:I don't know who the CDF is, but fat is OK as some of the best war leaders couldn't run 2.4km, even some of Israel's. Example, Sharon was what you call a "fat bugger", but boy, he a respected war leader even by the Arabs. -
good idea, but I don't think it will ever happen. Real world ops is too dangerous for anyone to volunteer. We are not in such dire circumstances to take these approaches.Originally posted by SpecOps87:--Increase the service period from 2yrs to the old 2.5 or even 3yrs to ensure 100% understanding of the officer,specialists and men's tasks and job scope.
-Attach regulars and possibility of NSFs to real world ops. -
I disagree that in the SARS incident the SAF lacked the initiative.Lets say you are the SAF Medical School Commander and you took the initiative and sent your NSFs and regulars to airport to help facilitate the screening etc.Suay Suay one of the man kena SARS,who will be responsible?SAF will be liable to answer....shit flows down to the Commander...then how? Its a military organization...and orders,commands are part and parcel of life in the military.So we gotta accept certain things and not critic the fact that there are measures in place which prevent the best of intentions from being carried out.
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It is not fair to be blame MINDEF for not acting quickly or that the officers have no initiative. Its like blaming the doctors and ambulances for not appearing before your eyes when you suddenly meet with an accident on the streets(Personally, I'd find that creepy. Its as if they anticipated my accident).Originally posted by OH-FF:The only weakness that we as Singaporeans truly have is that when there is a War Situation, nobody comes to the frontline.
I take this scenario very seriously because during the SARs incident , it is not our Medical Corps from the SAF to take the frontlines in the SARs prevention efforts. Those regulars and "Officers" Simply waited for instructions from above with no real intiative to bring themselves to the front planning tables.
Furthermore, if everyone acted on their own initiative, I think the outcome would have been more chaos instead of order. Imagine every different commander giving out different instructions because they think their initiatives are better. You think this is the Hollywood situation where they automatically know what each other man is thinking?
I would agree that the NS system may be a show. But as I have stated earlier in another post, be glad that this show is good enough to keep you comfortable in your chair typing up something to post in these forums. -
I wasnt that comfortable , having the contract to go to the frontlines to Screen for SARs as a PARAMEDIC. I'm only after the $$. The risks i knew i had to take , I understand the risks of putting myself frontline.
As I said our local Mindef's "Brains" did not take the healthcare situation as a challenge to gain organisational experience to handle health screening on the island wide basis. Who knows what experience they wants? Overseas allowances ? The Challenge to practice on the dead bodies collection in the tsunami effort?
These are the "Low Risk Efforts". What ever happened to the high risk local situations? Where are those Officers and Medical team who collect high government paid salaries? Why are they not taking the initative to come into the picture with resources and manpower? I believe there are lots or regulars and officers who are medically trained to cover the Shifts? Where are the trained doctors of NSF? Do they only take up shift work downgrading NSMEN who have high-blood pressure at CMPB?
I'm sure they are so comfortable because I was there at the frontline. And I also know i'm only paid hairs of shells of peanuts . Those who are really paid peanuts are having the comfortable positions of "low-risk trainers".
For those who are now overseas , please remember you are very comfortable and need not be disturbed for your reservist cycles. -
attitude reflect leadership.Originally posted by tvdog:But soon, as the body bags start filling... attitudes will change. -
I'll comment on this one. Its true that people overseas are "more comfortable" in that they have to constantly keep track of their finances and strict budgets. I'm speaking from the perspective of the overseas students in case theres a misunderstanding.Originally posted by OH-FF:For those who are now overseas , please remember you are very comfortable and need not be disturbed for your reservist cycles.
Before you have the illusion of comfort, may I also point out the financial burden of just being overseas? You may want to argue that we chose to be here, etc, etc or that we have rich parents. You are discounting that many of us here are average Joes and Janes.
Given the chance, I'd say many of us would gladly stay in Singapore and suffer that "disruption" to clear up that reservist cycle as early as possible instead of differing that to a later period. We can save money as well instead of burdening ourselves with debt that can take us a much longer time to clear. We are also detatched from the support of our friends and families back home. It should also be drawn to attention that the last time I asked, I was told by the local Universities that my polytechnic grades "would not have been able to admit me to the relevant degree courses". Its not as if many of us had a choice.
Are we deemed to be less patriotic than you, who have stayed back in Singapore to do you duty? Its not as if we are not going to do so when we get back eventually. -
Run the SAF as a military organization,not as a goddamned CORPORATION!!!This is the biggest turn off for me manz..look at the OCS website...OCS Corporation.This is an army not a friggin mercenary!
by SpecOps87 15.07.05
I think u mis read it.It should be' OCS Corporate--Home of the Officers Corps'
fr http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/ocs/index.html
Corporate means ,among other meaningsunited in one group
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Is corporate =corporation?u can have any opinions.But there is only one 'fact'l.
Why u guys hate companies?
What is a corporation?They will face the real world decided by market forces.
you wont prepare well and will get killed.It is the market force.
If u dunt want sg run like a corporation,U want Sg run like a socialist
state or like HK,not facing the reality?
We have the best from market economy(capitalism) and planned economy(socialism).While China PRC call herself as Socialist country with special
characteristics,Sg can call herself Capitalist country with special
characteristics.Lucky LKY was formerly a 70% socialist! -
I would welcome you back to Singapore, becoz once you returned not only will you feel the pressure of repaying your loans, you will also face the marketability of your "Overseas Degrees".Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:I'll comment on this one. Its true that people overseas are "more comfortable" in that they have to constantly keep track of their finances and strict budgets. I'm speaking from the perspective of the overseas students in case theres a misunderstanding.
Before you have the illusion of comfort, may I also point out the financial burden of just being overseas? You may want to argue that we chose to be here, etc, etc or that we have rich parents. You are discounting that many of us here are average Joes and Janes.
................................................... Its not as if we are not going to do so when we get back eventually.
I understand you have lots of hopes of returning to get a well paid job, and I personally do not wish to be a spoiler. However back to the Topic of our "Mindef" Leadership, Risk taking evaluations and participation in local "High risk situations", I do understand one thing. People who have too much to lose have less regard for risk taking. So my point is they are too comfortable siting in their seats to stand up to walk to the real situations.
For TVDog who thinks MEDIC is not a combat vocation, you're very wrong. Combat-medics carry heavier equipment than your soldiers. We're required to maintain our health as we're expected to be the last person to be reporting sick. We have to evaluate for officers whether a combat soldier is "Keng" or really needs attention. We need to face "Combat Stressed" Soldiers.
We carry needle scars from every year of Vocational training. When was your last visible scar from NS? We're either no situation to see or a real live injury to attend to. When was the last time you have to perform live situations?
From this many points and as a Combat Medic, I personally salute our SCDF nsf's for their commitment to service and live-situations. -
Originally posted by OH-FF:From this many points and as a Combat Medic, I personally salute our SCDF nsf's for their commitment to service and live-situations.
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There's no need to. I am fully aware of the limits of my degree and am more realistic in my expectations. Well-paid job. Does that thing actually exist for a fresh graduate? I think it only exist in the minds of many NUS graduates who feel they're at the top of the world.Originally posted by OH-FF:I would welcome you back to Singapore, becoz once you returned not only will you feel the pressure of repaying your loans, you will also face the marketability of your "Overseas Degrees".
I understand you have lots of hopes of returning to get a well paid job, and I personally do not wish to be a spoiler.
As for the view that medics are not combat vocations, I share your view. People who think medics have the easiest of jobs should be made to carry the medical gear on top of their combat loads and come back at the end of excercises and sit in the office trying not to fall asleep while listening to the whinings of those chao keng kias. -
One thing I want to emphasize is the Mentality of our "Higher Ranking Soldiers".
If a soldier is getting too comfortable being paid peanuts and dares not take up activities because there is too much to risk? For example, now there are certain courses considered taboo to even talk about , since the dunking case, there should be an evaluation of what liabilities and treatment of situations. We know for sure we're not going to be very realistic in many risk involved trainings. In any operation, "Safety" should be the priority for our Singaporean Sons.
However, as far as domestic situations occur please do have a realistic approach. We have many elite soldiers who have been placed in risky ops before, they have handled killings. And my salutes.
There are many other opportunities to be taken. Training for war is not all about weapons. Its the greatest weakness to think that weapons can win the war. Logistics , resource handling, communications are just as, if not more important. The weakness is the in Minds of all our soldiers . Taking things too comfortably. -
Actually , I am strongely against army involved in such situation , becos we certainly do not want infectious disease infecting hundred of our soldiers or even one, afterall all soldiers are in close contact wif eachother.Originally posted by OH-FF:I wasnt that comfortable , having the contract to go to the frontlines to Screen for SARs as a PARAMEDIC. I'm only after the $$. The risks i knew i had to take , I understand the risks of putting myself frontline.
As I said our local Mindef's "Brains" did not take the healthcare situation as a challenge to gain organisational experience to handle health screening on the island wide basis. Who knows what experience they wants? Overseas allowances ? The Challenge to practice on the dead bodies collection in the tsunami effort?
These are the "Low Risk Efforts". What ever happened to the high risk local situations? Where are those Officers and Medical team who collect high government paid salaries? Why are they not taking the initative to come into the picture with resources and manpower? I believe there are lots or regulars and officers who are medically trained to cover the Shifts? Where are the trained doctors of NSF? Do they only take up shift work downgrading NSMEN who have high-blood pressure at CMPB?
I'm sure they are so comfortable because I was there at the frontline. And I also know i'm only paid hairs of shells of peanuts . Those who are really paid peanuts are having the comfortable positions of "low-risk trainers".
For those who are now overseas , please remember you are very comfortable and need not be disturbed for your reservist cycles.
For example what if one soldiers infected , then how how many will be under quarantine in that camp???
Let's say he is from some large camp like Tengah AB , or Sugei Gedong???
How many units will be down becos of that???
That is why army should not get involved, and should be from MOH.
In fact, the army is super kiasu with these, daily temperature check for all personnel plus all that enter the camp. -
Huh? WTF are you talking about?Originally posted by OH-FF:For TVDog who thinks MEDIC is not a combat vocation, you're very wrong. Combat-medics carry heavier equipment than your soldiers. We're required to maintain our health as we're expected to be the last person to be reporting sick. We have to evaluate for officers whether a combat soldier is "Keng" or really needs attention. We need to face "Combat Stressed" Soldiers.
We carry needle scars from every year of Vocational training. When was your last visible scar from NS? We're either no situation to see or a real live injury to attend to. When was the last time you have to perform live situations?
From this many points and as a Combat Medic, I personally salute our SCDF nsf's for their commitment to service and live-situations.
I don't know you nor have I addressed any of your points in my posts.
Any comments I made was never in reply nor alluding to any of the points you've made.
When I was talking about "keng" I wasn't referring to you or anything you said, as nothing you've said has given me any impetus to make any comments. -
The fitness of soldiers will play a part in the outcome of war.Have u forgot
there are too many things also affect the outcome of any war or conflicts.
Morale of soldiers(Sg's civil defense shelters built to boost soldiers in front line)
Human management
Corruptios(This is a big topics and may be the one determine the outcome,well ..................before the war break out)
Logistics
The attlitude to do things the best(I am not saying any race is better)
pl add more.
Let us talk about logistics
Like Chinese says,Supply move before troops move.Any supply will run out very fast in war.I cannot tell the logics of my guess.But if u add up all the above factors.i would think Sg would have a better logistics supply in war.
For example U dunt know we make our ammo in our back yard?
Shop around
http://www.stengg.com/kinetics/listing.aspx?pdtypeid=1
Stop here.Mod will close thread. -
Originally posted by OH-FF:
[b]From this many points and as a Combat Medic, I personally salute our SCDF nsf's for their commitment to service and live-situations.
[/b]
hear hear!!!! hear hear!!!! 
salute SCDFparamedics!!!! -
Yup , but I hope people get the Idea , even Officers who plan for exercises all the time and do the sweat stuff are performing drills that is nowhere comparable to SCDF who goes in and out of Fire Situations risking lifes to save lifes .Originally posted by Devilsmarlin: hear hear!!!! hear hear!!!! salute SCDFparamedics!!!!
Of coz we also have Firefighters performing boring shifts like our Medics do . But isnt it all necessary to keep the phone lines open ?
And if a fire break out in Camp . who do you call?
Do you know that many numbers of the fire-fighters are NSFs too ?
Why are they risked more than any of our soldiers? -
please... there are those who died while fighting SARS and they didnt do it for the money.Originally posted by OH-FF:I wasnt that comfortable , having the contract to go to the frontlines to Screen for SARs as a PARAMEDIC. I'm only after the $$. The risks i knew i had to take , I understand the risks of putting myself frontline.
As I said our local Mindef's "Brains" did not take the healthcare situation as a challenge to gain organisational experience to handle health screening on the island wide basis. Who knows what experience they wants? Overseas allowances ? The Challenge to practice on the dead bodies collection in the tsunami effort?
These are the "Low Risk Efforts". What ever happened to the high risk local situations? Where are those Officers and Medical team who collect high government paid salaries? Why are they not taking the initative to come into the picture with resources and manpower? I believe there are lots or regulars and officers who are medically trained to cover the Shifts? Where are the trained doctors of NSF? Do they only take up shift work downgrading NSMEN who have high-blood pressure at CMPB?
I'm sure they are so comfortable because I was there at the frontline. And I also know i'm only paid hairs of shells of peanuts . Those who are really paid peanuts are having the comfortable positions of "low-risk trainers".
For those who are now overseas , please remember you are very comfortable and need not be disturbed for your reservist cycles.
and there are even more who fought SARS at various levels, some coming into direct contact with the virus itself, but they are not paid one dime more then their usual paypacket.... many remain as unsung heros who went on with their daily lives.
and those at the top... while they may be far from the frontline.. they too shoulder a heavy responsibilities..
very often... its the hand that is the one doing the job.. but its the brain that got a skull armour protecting it.. why does nature operates in such a way? -
You are very right !! Where did those people who collected $$$ come into the picture, take the risks ??? More than surprising they paid others dusts just to risk others. Why they quarantined that many people ?? They were so serious about paying people's loss of income ?? What about those putting themselves at risk ? What about those who were risked suffered 1st hand the disease and volunteered to be their guinea pigs ? You can name many unsung heroes But those who died for it never received peanuts as bonuses less to say conpensations.Originally posted by tripwire:please... there are those who died while fighting SARS and they didnt do it for the money.
and there are even more who fought SARS at various levels, some coming into direct contact with the virus itself, but they are not paid one dime more then their usual paypacket.... many remain as unsung heros who went on with their daily lives.
and those at the top... while they may be far from the frontline.. they too shoulder a heavy responsibilities..
very often... its the hand that is the one doing the job.. but its the brain that got a skull armour protecting it.. why does nature operates in such a way? -
Care to read what I (as an outsider) have to say about the weaknesses?
I've read the posts in this forum and in the SAF forum for quite some time. I'm not involved in your NS or any military in any way, so I can't provide any professional views.
But a very glaring impression that I got from lurking in these forums, is that many of you (except a few) who are in the SAF don't care much about army professionalism, trying to improve your military skills, trying to do your job right, or even have much initiative in your role. Most of you just want to find a way to survive or slack through the NS. You are worried about things that are not primarily combat related. You have not much faith in your superiors. You have mostly negative views about all the policies and practices. The attitude is this: just do what is being told and don't care about the details.
Well whether true or not, honestly that's the impression I got. Who knows, maybe that the phenomonon in most armies around the world. -
GOOD ONE!Originally posted by zhaozhilong:Care to read what I (as an outsider) have to say about the weaknesses?
I've read the posts in this forum and in the SAF forum for quite some time. I'm not involved in your NS or any military in any way, so I can't provide any professional views.
But a very glaring impression that I got from lurking in these forums, is that many of you (except a few) who are in the SAF don't care much about army professionalism, trying to improve your military skills, trying to do your job right, or even have much initiative in your role. Most of you just want to find a way to survive or slack through the NS. You are worried about things that are not primarily combat related. You have not much faith in your superiors. You have mostly negative views about all the policies and practices. The attitude is this: just do what is being told and don't care about the details.
Well whether true or not, honestly that's the impression I got. Who knows, maybe that the phenomonon in most armies around the world. -
Correct and he comes from a Communist Country with very dependable superiors. LoL
He would gladly be a bullet shield for his leader . -
The day when war comes to Singapore is the day where although I may not have voted for the current party in power,I am willing to fight.Why?Its not for myself,but its for what ever background I have here,for my relatives,my friends,my fellow country men. And I will be damn sure to gladly make sure the other bastards die for their country instead of making me die for mine.
Communist thinking or not...The SAF trains its troopers to be thinking soldeirs of the 21st Century.Can you gurantee that China's army are even that close to their training? Also, even if you have the world's largest standing army,what makes you so certain that you will be able to deploy all your forces and ensure that their morale and goals are there.Even in the SAF, the most chao keng soldiers can be relied upon when the need arises.But can yours? We are after all arm-chair generals talking about the outcome and performance of war...but will everything is under an "if this happens" scenario,there is no definite answer for the true outcome -
Most of us are not professional soldiers in the 1st place. why improve military skills when it's not our career? Yes, we'll probably do our best during our reservists training but we have our daily bread and butter issues to handle. National defense is definitely our concern in general. But the probability of war is so low that the urgency is not there.Originally posted by zhaozhilong:But a very glaring impression that I got from lurking in these forums, is that many of you (except a few) who are in the SAF don't care much about army professionalism, trying to improve your military skills, trying to do your job right, or even have much initiative in your role. Most of you just want to find a way to survive or slack through the NS.