Black Hawk Down
-
It's a little known fact that Malaysian troops were involved in the battle depicted in the movie'Black Hawk Down"
In this Battle of Mogadishu, 32 Malaysian Condor Armoured Personal Carriers (V-150 APC) with 113 personnel were sent to rescue 75 American servicemen trapped by Somali gunmen trained by Osama's terrorists.
18 US soldiers were killed in the battle and 70 were wounded.
In the rescue operation, Condor driver Private Mat Aznan Awang was killed by heavy machine gun fire. An RPG ripped apart his APC while eleven other Malaysian troops were injured.
Four Malaysian V-150 Condor APCs were put out of action by the Somalis.
Alas, the movie failed to mention this...... -
really ?
-
why do we care?
you should be posting this in a malaysian forum. -
Got to know because we are fighting the same ememy........Osama......he was advisor to the Somalis.....he is the C in C of AL-Qaeda...JI..... -
idwar, the movie want to save MAF's face what , thats why...Originally posted by idwar:It's a little known fact that Malaysian troops were involved in the battle depicted in the movie'Black Hawk Down"
In this Battle of Mogadishu, 32 Malaysian Condor Armoured Personal Carriers (V-150 APC) with 113 personnel were sent to rescue 75 American servicemen trapped by Somali gunmen trained by Osama's terrorists.
18 US soldiers were killed in the battle and 70 were wounded.
In the rescue operation, Condor driver Private Mat Aznan Awang was killed by heavy machine gun fire. An RPG ripped apart his APC while eleven other Malaysian troops were injured.
Four Malaysian V-150 Condor APCs were put out of action by the Somalis.
Alas, the movie failed to mention this......
normally , an ARMOURED personal carrier should be able to withstand the power of an RPG...
SAF'S APC all heavily equipped with reactive armour . -
Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:
and u, my dear asshole, can go bark up another tree
idwar, the movie want to save MAF's face what , thats why...
normally , an [b]ARMOURED personal carrier should be able to withstand the power of an RPG...
SAF'S APC all heavily equipped with reactive armour .[/b]
-
lol...Originally posted by Lance_han:and u, my dear asshole, can go bark up another tree
+1 -
heard from my dad..
seems that US went in to somali on their own accord, underestimated their enemy and were not very well prepared.
msia was with UN then and they supplied armoured vehicles. US then decided they wanted to use these APCs to reenter or rescue ppl.. and demanded use of these vehicles. msia said ok, but demanded that their own troops would follow because it the tanks belonged to them.
anyone heard of this side of the story? -
stop this hypocrite crap idwar..u think i dunno wat ur up too?Originally posted by idwar:Got to know because we are fighting the same ememy........Osama......he was advisor to the Somalis.....he is the C in C of AL-Qaeda...JI..... -
Yes.the rescue force was made up of Malaysian and Pakistani armor.And the CPL killed was the first Malaysian soldier to die in war.Originally posted by fallencloud:heard from my dad..
seems that US went in to somali on their own accord, underestimated their enemy and were not very well prepared.
msia was with UN then and they supplied armoured vehicles. US then decided they wanted to use these APCs to reenter or rescue ppl.. and demanded use of these vehicles. msia said ok, but demanded that their own troops would follow because it the tanks belonged to them.
anyone heard of this side of the story?
Perhaps this is one time idwar is useful. -
Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:
R u sure? From what I know,armour personnel carrier is no way to withstand a RPG unless u talk abt the Israel one which weights more than 30 tons. An armour personal carrier can withstand a 0.5 is consider v good already!
idwar, the movie want to save MAF's face what , thats why...
normally , an ARMOURED personal carrier should be able to withstand the power of an RPG...
SAF'S APC all heavily equipped with reactive armour . -
Actually our Bionix is believe to have Mexas composite armour or something similar, thus it can be considered as one of the most well armoured IFV in the world , in the same class as Bradley or Warrior.Originally posted by zenden9:R u sure? From what I know,armour personnel carrier is no way to withstand a RPG unless u talk abt the Israel one which weights more than 30 tons. An armour personal carrier can withstand a 0.5 is consider v good already!
In the Tanknet forum , there were some speculation on it's protection, and I quote:There were some old, old threads on this. Apparently, the Bionix mounts MEXAS composite NERA armor over a VHS hull, which makes it very well protected for its weight. IIRC, the rough estimate was 12.7mm all around protection, and 30mm APFSDS and RPG-7 frontal protection.
Bionix 40/50 is abt 21,500kg and the stripped down w/o composite armour with only remotely fire HMG version Bionix ICV is abt 17,000kg, thus the composite armour is abt 4 tons!!!
http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/supplement/lav/lav_bionix.shtml
In conclusion, the Bionix IFV is the most well protected IFV in SEA, whether the frontal armour could withstand a old RPG-7, I think it could, at least greatly limit the devastation as we see in the Condor which only offer up to 7.62mm protection.
In fact, after Somalia, MY bought some Korean KIFVs(modified M113 with spaced armour) for UN mission in Bosnia rather than using the Condor becos of it's poor protection. -
As for our M113 which was upgraded to Ultra standard is reported to have bolted passive armour and interior spall lining, armoured track skirt etc.
According to Janes, the additional armour was at the front as well as the sides, and that increase protection up to 14.5mm.
The side was not so obvious (maybe they did not mount it or they actually already welded them on & the width did increase from 2.686 to 2.8m) but at the front , there is one slab of armour( presumbly ceramics , due to the uparmoured , it is of cos heavier but there is no comfirmation what is the extent of the additional armour, but due to the additional weight , the trim vane was enlarged to improve bouyancy. -
The movie was made by american, based on a book written by an american, and the screenplay was also written by an american, to depict how hard the great american soldiers were fighting to preserve peace and stability in the world, but they finally learned that "all our ignorance brings us closer to death." Can't expect them to speak for malaysia.Originally posted by idwar:It's a little known fact that Malaysian troops were involved in the battle depicted in the movie'Black Hawk Down"
In this Battle of Mogadishu, 32 Malaysian Condor Armoured Personal Carriers (V-150 APC) with 113 personnel were sent to rescue 75 American servicemen trapped by Somali gunmen trained by Osama's terrorists.
18 US soldiers were killed in the battle and 70 were wounded.
In the rescue operation, Condor driver Private Mat Aznan Awang was killed by heavy machine gun fire. An RPG ripped apart his APC while eleven other Malaysian troops were injured.
Four Malaysian V-150 Condor APCs were put out of action by the Somalis.
Alas, the movie failed to mention this......
But at the end of movie, there was this malaysia drivers who told off the GI, "I have my order!" I thought that speak well for the malaysian soldiers.
Want to share with us what malaysia learned from your involvement in somali? -
no ifv is invulnerable...even using a dated weapon system like the RPG...a well placed shot would immobilize it...
-
And do you know what was the order???Originally posted by sgdiehard:The movie was made by american, based on a book written by an american, and the screenplay was also written by an american, to depict how hard the great american soldiers were fighting to preserve peace and stability in the world, but they finally learned that "all our ignorance brings us closer to death." Can't expect them to speak for malaysia.
But at the end of movie, there was this malaysia drivers who told off the GI, "I have my order!" I thought that speak well for the malaysian soldiers.
Want to share with us what malaysia learned from your involvement in somali?The Malaysian company commander was informed by his Battalion commander not to attempt to recover the dead and wounded for fear of sustaining additional casualties.
http://www.ranger.org/somaliaHistoryUSARA.html -
Of course, that's also apply to MBT too, a well place hit against the track or the engine compartment could do likewise.Originally posted by Rockhound:no ifv is invulnerable...even using a dated weapon system like the RPG...a well placed shot would immobilize it...
The design of AFV including IFV and MBT are mainly for the crew survivability , the vehicle itself cannot be totally invulnerable in all possible threats.
Since the fact that most hits will be against the frontal armour of a AFV, thus the most heavily armour will be at the glacis and turret and that is compromise, becos if the AFVs has all round protection , it will be very heavy, mobility affected & costly.
As for the Bionix, though there is complaints that it is very cramp, it's offer the best protection for AI in SAF and even the region. -
RPG believed to have brought down a Chinook with 17 US Special Forces including SEALS in Afghanistan just 2 days ago They were trying to rescue a Recce team....no news of this Recce unit ...another classic battle in the making?.
-
I wish that was so true.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:SAF'S APC all heavily equipped with reactive armour .
-
Actually nowadays,ERA is no more popular for APC/IFV , becos the ERA explosion is a danger to nearby dismounted friendly troops, now they are using what is called NERA(Non Explosive Reactive Armour), what is does is disrupt the jet from CE and in some way the rod of a KE round.Originally posted by ditzy:I wish that was so true.
For eg. Israeli Sabra MBT is mounted with NERA , not ERA anymore. -
in war, hit the supply vehicles.....thinned skin....low quality of supply troopers......no fuel equals no tanks.....the Iraqis managed to hit one supply convoy and capture the US lady soldier,,,,,but they failed to maintain the strategy -
i think i heard the news tooOriginally posted by idwar:RPG believed to have brought down a Chinook with 17 US Special Forces including SEALS in Afghanistan just 2 days ago They were trying to rescue a Recce team....no news of this Recce unit ...another classic battle in the making?. -
Of course it could not be maintain,after lesson learn , the supply line is fully escorted with well armed troops, such tactic is only one shot wonder!!!Originally posted by idwar:in war, hit the supply vehicles.....thinned skin....low quality of supply troopers......no fuel equals no tanks.....the Iraqis managed to hit one supply convoy and capture the US lady soldier,,,,,but they failed to maintain the strategy
That is why our logistic vehicle is the fully armoured Bronco ATTC, protected against small arms and shell splinter!!!
-
True that the Malaysian APC's was part of the UN operation. But u gotta admit..if it were not for the APC's, the US will be picking up more body bags. I gotta give the US credit though..they NEVER leave no one behind. As long as u are an American citizen..soldier.. the will send the army in just to get ur sorry ass outta there.
-
Although in the operation to capture adid's top leaders and himself ended in disaster with the downing of 2 Blackhawks.It created many heroes of the troopers on the ground who fought for the lives of each other not for any political reasoning or motive,but purly for the survival for their fellow brothers-in-arms.
Everytime the operation in Somalia is mentioned...amongst the many heros,the two most distinct who pop into my mind are Randy Shurghart and Gary Gordon.Selflessly requesting to be landed to protect Mike Durant's crashsite.People who barely know each other by looks and not name,willing to scarifice their very lives for them.That's a really noble act. A salute to Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon.