LKY on China: Bring skills the Chinese do not have
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Originally posted by Alexandrine:
Funny... if he's dogmatic n' stuck there like a wad of toothless old gum, why still vote his cohorts to rule a 1-party govt in S''pore every 5 years?! Anyway, what Singaporeans could bring to China would be our "honesty". If any Singaporean could outsmart the "Chinese cannibals", we can rule the world without grovelling to the Chinks!
Election is no longer fixed at once in 4 or 5 years. It is a gap of 6 years between 2006 and 2012 (next election). Date fixed according to the whimps and fancies of the old heck and gang. -
Kiasi syndrome.
Too much pay at stake.
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Exactly. Hahahah
kiasi kiasu kiachum kiabor
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Hello, the main thing the chinese cannot cope with us is Corruption, Chinese for centuries fall from dynasty to dynasty because of Corruption and brutal ruling, by right, China has one of the longest history with dynasty after dynasty, kingdom after kingdom, it should be a world leader before even american or europe come around.Tech wise, in 10 years, we will not match them, trade and economy wise, we also cannot match them in term size and resources. The only thing left that we can win them, is Trust. That is why we are one of the best financial service sector in the world. Europe and american investing in China do not want Chinese accountants, they want, Singaporean or Hongkong accountants. Because Chinese accountants tend to massage the figure for their own good.
In China, business is not run by trust, which most western or even asian get cheated, it is base on relationship, you need to build that relationship, that is why so many chinese students who are future business people in China are studying here so that our youngs can get to build relationship with them first, same goes to our youngs going to china for intern training. As such, when they grew up, the relationship and bonds is there.
When Comfort started operation it fleet of taxis in China, shanghai, chinese drivers came in from all over provinces, trained and get licensed, rented the taxi to ply for their trade, just like our Singaporean taxi Uncle did, take a taxis lesson, rent out a taxi and do their business. But by the third day of operation, 50 taxis need not come back.....so much for the trust ya.
Oh so taking millions of dollars is not considered corruption?
I guess your definition of corruption is as myopic as the size of your brain.
I don't think you comprehend what I meant about applying tech capability. Some techies are super good technically, but cannot apply their knowledge well. They do not know how to adapt their skills into the business domain. That's the major part where Singaporean IT experts can defeat them (and Indians from India as well). They are not suitable for high-level consultancy roles. We are.
If it's not your domain, I told you many times. Shut up and stop embarassing yourself.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Oh so taking millions of dollars is not considered corruption?
I guess your definition of corruption is as myopic as the size of your brain.
I don't think you comprehend what I meant about applying tech capability. Some techies are super good technically, but cannot apply their knowledge well. They do not know how to adapt their skills into the business domain. That's the major part where Singaporean IT experts can defeat them (and Indians from India as well). They are not suitable for high-level consultancy roles. We are.
If it's not your domain, I told you many times. Shut up and stop embarassing yourself.
Taking millions of dollars as one foreigner told me it could be a new form of corruption.
This angel7030 is here purely for bootlicking, telling stupid stories, misinterpreting and boasting.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Exactly. Hahahah
kiasi kiasu kiachum kiabor
plus KiamChaiMia syndrome -
Originally posted by OH-FF:
plus KiamChaiMia syndrome
The old heck and gang don't have kiamchaimia, they are leading lifestyle of elites with the world class salaries. -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
Yes we have.
Tech-wise, so what if they can pirate a version of the iphone? Monkeys see monkeys do, is much easier than understanding the basis of a subject and being able to apply.
The chinese lack a lot on bridging the gap between tech-capabilities and business needs, that's one very important factor.
The majority of chinese also do not excel in an extroverted position, such as one that requires frequent interaction with many different people.
I can think of many other examples of how we are better than them.
Don't look down on our fellow countrymen, just for the sake of objecting to LKY's comments. I personally believe in our own people, otherwise, we would not be consistently ranked as one of the most productive workforce in the world.
I sometime wonder if this the weakness of cultured inheritant or weakness thru Cannibalizing technology and conceptualized business practices....because at some level i see the parallel disconnection between the PRC and SG organizations .I have done comprasion on 2 industries, and I see it on the chinese front they focus on individual skills level and competing at individual level and are less familar in intergrating technologies into the business aspect.
I see Singapore organization are too eager to intergrate technology into their business operation without fully comprehend the people side of the business.
What strike me is that both cultured demonstrate the inabilities to look at the entired cycle.
this is a general observation of course.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
I sometime wonder if this the weakness of cultured inheritant or weakness thru Cannibalizing technology and conceptualized business practices....because at some level i see the parallel disconnection between the PRC and SG organizations .I have done comprasion on 2 industries, and I see it on the chinese front they focus on individual skills level and competing at individual level and are less familar in intergrating technologies into the business aspect.
I see Singapore organization are too eager to intergrate technology into their business operation without fully comprehend the people side of the business.
What strike me is that both cultured demonstrate the inabilities to look at the entired cycle.
this is a general observation of course.
Your observations are pretty accurate.
Chinese through history, are very focused on the individual. It's more about taking care about oneself. All others can ignore. The milk scandal already demonstrates this issue, that individuals do not see the big picture, and are only in for a quick buck. The result? Overnight destruction of the chinese reputation that took painstaking years to build.
Singapore is altogether another different cookie. the SG orgs are VERY good at systematic processes. But like you said, they focused very little on human part of the business. They believe that with systematic processes in place, no one is indispensable. So comes the habit of forcing experienced workers to leave, and hiring fresh grads (coz they are cheap), thinking that the systematic processes will help to bring fresh grads up to speed and work as well as those experienced workers.
And then there are the western companies, that look at whether an individual fits into their organization. They do not just look at skills, but also at the person's personality and whether this person can potentially excel both individually, as well as in a team, in their organization.
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earthlings are...............humans only irregardless of creed and race.each "blessed" with their special imperfections.
fanta....ministers in spore are overpaid .they dont have any business to run ...just run the directors and managers life in spore is all they need.its like a jungle that has the tigers or lions that controls the zebra to buffalos etc.By controlling the lions and tigers,they control the others under lions /tigers control and with that they control the entire jungle. but if the zebras and buffalos were to vanish then lions and tigers are useless and so the jungle ends .one must vanish and turn to stone in order for the sytem to malfunction.however its not possible as more zebras and buffalos are imported from overseas.in the end those that are turned into stone will just be trodden over by lions while it overlooks in the nearby hills at fresh overseas meat zebras and buffalos.
advancing to a stage above the animal status is the only way to go.
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china...things that they want?
they want money,gold and silver!
if u have all those...u are much valued in china!
or if u are an 80 year old legendary important world leader and can swing yer hips like a 20 year old man in a strip club...then china wants u too!!!they dun have those kinda stuff in china!if 1 person pays $1 to see 80 year old world famous politician swing hips like 20 year old dude then 1 billion chinaman will pay $1billion in no time .
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Originally posted by Hitman_:
china...things that they want?
they want money,gold and silver!
if u have all those...u are much valued in china!
or if u are an 80 year old legendary important world leader and can swing yer hips like a 20 year old man in a strip club...then china wants u too!!!they dun have those kinda stuff in china!if 1 person pays $1 to see 80 year old world famous politician swing hips like 20 year old dude then 1 billion chinaman will pay $1billion in no time .
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Oh so taking millions of dollars is not considered corruption?
I guess your definition of corruption is as myopic as the size of your brain.
I don't think you comprehend what I meant about applying tech capability. Some techies are super good technically, but cannot apply their knowledge well. They do not know how to adapt their skills into the business domain. That's the major part where Singaporean IT experts can defeat them (and Indians from India as well). They are not suitable for high-level consultancy roles. We are.
If it's not your domain, I told you many times. Shut up and stop embarassing yourself.
If i tell you my paid is millions, am I corrupted?? you got to change your lenses man.
Chinese and Indians are quick learners, they adapt very fast, everywhere they go, they grab people market and business...just like singapore chinese and indonesia chinese.. but one reason, they have a deep self interest, they wanted quick success or quick in getting rich, and are therefore, easily fall into corruption. And Corruption is not an easy task, you need hv the skill and tactic too, technically, in term of IT, they are also good, just that they love to side track into corruption, that is where their country have a high disparity between the rich and the poor.
The different btw indian and singapore IT skill is, we singapore buy to learn the IT skill, they programme it.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If i tell you my paid is millions, am I corrupted?? you got to change your lenses man.
Chinese and Indians are quick learners, they adapt very fast, everywhere they go, they grab people market and business...just like singapore chinese and indonesia chinese.. but one reason, they have a deep self interest, they wanted quick success or quick in getting rich, and are therefore, easily fall into corruption. And Corruption is not an easy task, you need hv the skill and tactic too, technically, in term of IT, they are also good, just that they love to side track into corruption, that is where their country have a high disparity between the rich and the poor.
The different btw indian and singapore IT skill is, we singapore buy to learn the IT skill, they programme it.
You realise there's a difference in the source of the money when you're being paid millions in the private sector and in the public sector right? -
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You realise there's a difference in the source of the money when you're being paid millions in the private sector and public sector right?
People who are paid million and million of dollars in the public sector have much more power, they have power over the private sector. I guess this is one of the reasons why they wanna continue be businessmen cum politicians "serving" the public. -
As i said, China works in a very different perspectives toward capitalism business, they inherited the Russian, Europe and also American way of doing business, in China, peoples are learning American English instead of British, thru their communism struggling, all China peoples are trained and able to live independently, a PRC gal can survive in Singapore alone, they adaptable and able to take on suffering as part of life, the govt dun spoon feed them, it is all up to them to find survivor instinct, this create self protection, self interest and self independency. As this giant move itself toward a global economy powerhouse, it will have it unique way of doing business, and if you are thinking that you can go into china and do a business, you better think thrice, without a any relationship within china, you probably will loose out in no time.
My MP for Joo Chiat, Mr Chan told me, as a former CEO for Suzhou industrial park, he said, dealing Chinese business, you need to listen probably, those slant Chinese words can get you into a wrong situation. In China, when they said, they sell you a factory warehouse at a good discount, you happily bought it and think that you make good deal, you forget ask about electricity, water, drainage, rules, regulatory requirement etc etc...after buying it, you go to your warehouse to find no electricity, no water, no proper drainage, poor foundation, and when the authority came in knowing that a foreigner own this warehouse, they will warrant you to stop function until you have proper/licensed electrial system, drainage, water pipes, and you foundation must re-renovated before they allow you to do business, so you go to suzhou town council to appeal or apply for all these license and construction/renovation rights, they will tell you only Beijin can approve all this,...and so on. In the end, you warehouse standstill for years without movement, until you paid to get a consultant to settle the issue, consultant will first ask you, do you know any high ranking people in Beijing? If not, you better get one, or i can recommend you, but that cost you quite a sum, sure can make your warehouse functioning in few months time.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Your observations are pretty accurate.
Chinese through history, are very focused on the individual. It's more about taking care about oneself. All others can ignore. The milk scandal already demonstrates this issue, that individuals do not see the big picture, and are only in for a quick buck. The result? Overnight destruction of the chinese reputation that took painstaking years to build.
Singapore is altogether another different cookie. the SG orgs are VERY good at systematic processes. But like you said, they focused very little on human part of the business. They believe that with systematic processes in place, no one is indispensable. So comes the habit of forcing experienced workers to leave, and hiring fresh grads (coz they are cheap), thinking that the systematic processes will help to bring fresh grads up to speed and work as well as those experienced workers.
And then there are the western companies, that look at whether an individual fits into their organization. They do not just look at skills, but also at the person's personality and whether this person can potentially excel both individually, as well as in a team, in their organization.
I would challenge your opinion on Chinese history. I see little historical basis for it being individual focused, family based sure but individual?
You're talking about a country with 1.3 billion, simple statistics would have meant there would be more selfish individuals who are more interested in a quick buck. India has more than its fair share of horrendous scandals like its organ market so there's little basis for it to be culturally based.
I have no disagreement with the rest of your post.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You realise there's a difference in the source of the money when you're being paid millions in the private sector and in the public sector right?No, paid is private and confidential, the ability of a person able to get higher paid, is one own right, no matter how he or she goes about getting it. If i am able to be paid millions, so what, that is my right, be it private or public, you got to answer to someone for getting such paid, and if that someone is not complaining much and the result shown satisfy the one who is paying. What's wrong with it.
People are just succumbed to envy others, and that is a Sin. Because Envy bring about jealousy and hatre, once something other have and you dun have, you start to envy, and inorder to erase that envy in you, you either destroyor go against the other no obvious reason, but simply out of envy ya
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If i tell you my paid is millions, am I corrupted?? you got to change your lenses man.
Chinese and Indians are quick learners, they adapt very fast, everywhere they go, they grab people market and business...just like singapore chinese and indonesia chinese.. but one reason, they have a deep self interest, they wanted quick success or quick in getting rich, and are therefore, easily fall into corruption. And Corruption is not an easy task, you need hv the skill and tactic too, technically, in term of IT, they are also good, just that they love to side track into corruption, that is where their country have a high disparity between the rich and the poor.
The different btw indian and singapore IT skill is, we singapore buy to learn the IT skill, they programme it.
Your comparison is completely off-direction.
We are talking about salaries of our leaders being paid by us. If you are able to con old men into paying so much to your pub, it's your own business. No one will complain about that.
If you cannot differentiate, it says much about your intelligence.
In addition, I urge you stop talking rubbish about IT. You do not understand even the surface, and yet you keep trying to display your stupidity.
As I said, Singaporeans are amongst the most productive in the world. Everywhere I go, Singaporeans are highly valued, much more so than PRCs or Indians. I don't see why we cannot adapt better than them.
Just shut up in areas that are beyond you, as it displays your stupidity in full naked glory
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I would challenge your opinion on Chinese history. I see little historical basis for it being individual focused, family based sure but individual?
You're talking about a country with 1.3 billion, simple statistics would have meant there would be more selfish individuals who are more interested in a quick buck. India has more than its fair share of horrendous scandals like its organ market so there's little basis for it to be culturally based.
I have no disagreement with the rest of your post.
Well, my observations are my own. I won't claim it to be the truth, coz even if I have thousands of Chinese friends and colleagues, that only represents one part of the population.
However, I think you have heard of the chinese saying. "3 Japanese = 1 dragon. 3 Chinese = 1 worm"
This is not said by me, but by the Chinese themselves. Coz putting 3 Chinese together = infighting.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
No, paid is private and confidential, the ability of a person able to get higher paid, is one own right, no matter how he or she goes about getting it. If i am able to be paid millions, so what, that is my right, be it private or public, you got to answer to someone for getting such paid, and if that someone is not complaining much and the result shown satisfy the one who is paying. What's wrong with it.
People are just succumbed to envy others, and that is a Sin. Because Envy bring about jealousy and hatre, once something other have and you dun have, you start to envy, and inorder to erase that envy in you, you either destroyor go against the other no obvious reason, but simply out of envy ya
The problem is the source of the money where their salaries are coming from. Their salaries are not from corporate profits, they are from tax(and our CPF).The people pay tax with the understanding that the money would be used for the benefits of the people/money. It's the same outcry when it was discovered that Durai/Mingyi has been enjoying high salaries and perks.
Worst of all, when CEOs messed up they get fired immediately. They don't get to blame it on an underling and continue to sit there, claim a high salary and make snide remarks on how their employees should be more compliant, cheaper, faster and more efficient.
Their wife don't get to be chairwoman on a subsidary despite losing 100 billion.
I have no issues with high salaries for ministers i can agree having that much power you have to guard against outside interests damaging national interests.
But if they want the parks and benefits, they should expect that responsibility should come with it. Right now the board of directors ARE the CEOs.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Well, my observations are my own. I won't claim it to be the truth, coz even if I have thousands of Chinese friends and colleagues, that only represents one part of the population.
However, I think you have heard of the chinese saying. "3 Japanese = 1 dragon. 3 Chinese = 1 worm"
This is not said by me, but by the Chinese themselves. Coz putting 3 Chinese together = infighting.
Actually i think it's 1 Japanese = 1 worm , 1 Chinese = 1 dragon. 2 Japanese = 1 dragon, 2 Chinese = 1 worm.I certainly don't disagree, i have several Chinese friends myself. Perhaps i am too much of an arse or too much of an anti social jerk but having thousands of Chinese friends seems to me to be a little difficult to get a detailed picture.
However, i see the problems in China as a neccessary step rather than a chronic problem. I'm sure we can both agree that the workers' and humans right record for America for the 1st half of the last century wasn't exactly astounding either.
But let's leave this for another thread or PMs because we're probably derailing the thread atm.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Your comparison is completely off-direction.
We are talking about salaries of our leaders being paid by us. If you are able to con old men into paying so much to your pub, it's your own business. No one will complain about that.
If you cannot differentiate, it says much about your intelligence.
In addition, I urge you stop talking rubbish about IT. You do not understand even the surface, and yet you keep trying to display your stupidity.
As I said, Singaporeans are amongst the most productive in the world. Everywhere I go, Singaporeans are highly valued, much more so than PRCs or Indians. I don't see why we cannot adapt better than them.
Just shut up in areas that are beyond you, as it displays your stupidity in full naked glory
The pronoun word "us" with ref to our leader paid, need to be clarify, it is not only you ya. If i cannot differentiate things, so be it, why need to scold people leh??
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The pronoun word "us" with ref to our leader paid, need to be clarify, it is not only you ya. If i cannot differentiate things, so be it, why need to scold people leh??
hello, not only you can't differentiate things, you are also very fond of misinterpreting.By the way, you have not answered my question.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
The problem is the source of the money where their salaries are coming from. Their salaries are not from corporate profits, they are from tax(and our CPF).The people pay tax with the understanding that the money would be used for the benefits of the people/money. It's the same outcry when it was discovered that Durai/Mingyi has been enjoying high salaries and perks.
Worst of all, when CEOs messed up they get fired immediately. They don't get to blame it on an underling and continue to sit there, claim a high salary and make snide remarks on how their employees should be more compliant, cheaper, faster and more efficient.
Their wife don't get to be chairwoman on a subsidary despite losing 100 billion.
I have no issues with high salaries for ministers i can agree having that much power you have to guard against outside interests damaging national interests.
But if they want the parks and benefits, they should expect that responsibility should come with it. Right now the board of directors ARE the CEOs.
Corporate satisfy Shareholders with return in investment, Govt satisfy its Citizens, provide job for them and give opportunity for them, to get educated, to get prosperous, and to get healthier, peace and harmony.
If shareholders find that the CEO is not worth the job, they can alway get rid of him/her with a certain compensation. If citizens find that govt is not suitable to rule the country, they can alway vote them out. Fair?
Good paid Ministers of Singapore is not a new issue, it had been around since the 90s, but majority peoples of Singapore still vote them. This alone gives them the mandate that they are worth that much. Question?
Lost in investment is not only the govt alone, most investors lost in the last year financial crisis including my daddy, it is not some thing that the govt lost and others win, it is a global lost, and these billions lost were gain taken from the early years, just like we gain 200 billions and now lost 100 billions, what is the big deal? We are still in blue, we still can pour billions into the market to stimulate the economy, just ask yourself, is their lost which is still a gain if you audit a 10 years consolidating account, led you to sleep in the street with no food??? or that everything come to a standstill, and that sing dollars you are holding is less valuable than Baht, Ringgit or USA dollars??? Think hor.
Throughout the decades of PAP rules, we had gone thru so many crisis, and everytime, we come up fast and furious, i have no doubt that PAP has master the skill of handling crisis management, and most singaporeans like me, are not blind to it,
not to say that there is no capable oppositions (which I dun think there is), if the govt is changed, another crisis is to hit Singapore, which will happen, i have doubt that they can handle it.