Minimum Wage – The Good, the Bad and the Truth
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
I wouldn't, but if you're that unqualified, how much do you deserve to be paid?
If a person that you interviewed for a job and you feel that he/she is that unqualified you probably won't hired the person....and so paid is not even the issued here. -
Pay issue is mostly for 'convenient' easy to replace jobs such as clerks and stuffu.
And especially for temp jobs.
And these are the jobs most people are expected to get especially in Singapore 'still-manufacturing' industry. So yeah, if you read statistics from Ministry of Manpower, you read articles all over the world, the issue is not minimum wages, issue is whether you have the 'value proposition'.
If you are IT personnel they might as well get outsourcing from china or bangaladeshi, if you are an engineer they might as well get a cohort from china's universities (especially their students could take up more jobs for less pay and still work like cow:dun flame me on this)...
So what is your value? If you do not have a signal (certification, past job experience, etc) you are not even considered under minimum criteria. And even if you have the signal, some things may not be 'signallable' such as managerial skills and communications skills.
I suggest you work in a "COCK" SME first, know all the dirty and dark secrets of the industry, then slowly jump from ship to ship.
Company loyalty is the thing of the past. Good companies know they NEED TO retent valuable personnel. Think this way, low wages in singapore mean that you can even have the CHANCE to 'jump start' yourself and study in the school of hard knocks which may be critical for you to understand what is the labour experience, and if you are already working in MNCs you could probably understand what are the labour experience outside singapore.
Sounds like government never help us, but running like a private organization they have KPIs to attend to minimum employment figures, and anyways from looking at global perspective, I do support low wages but not most of their other policies, such as HDB and CPFs.
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Originally posted by HeartHunter:
Pay issue is mostly for 'convenient' easy to replace jobs such as clerks and stuffu.
And especially for temp jobs.
And these are the jobs most people are expected to get especially in Singapore 'still-manufacturing' industry. So yeah, if you read statistics from Ministry of Manpower, you read articles all over the world, the issue is not minimum wages, issue is whether you have the 'value proposition'.
If you are IT personnel they might as well get outsourcing from china or bangaladeshi, if you are an engineer they might as well get a cohort from china's universities (especially their students could take up more jobs for less pay and still work like cow:dun flame me on this)...
So what is your value? If you do not have a signal (certification, past job experience, etc) you are not even considered under minimum criteria. And even if you have the signal, some things may not be 'signallable' such as managerial skills and communications skills.
I suggest you work in a "COCK" SME first, know all the dirty and dark secrets of the industry, then slowly jump from ship to ship.
Company loyalty is the thing of the past. Good companies know they NEED TO retent valuable personnel. Think this way, low wages in singapore mean that you can even have the CHANCE to 'jump start' yourself and study in the school of hard knocks which may be critical for you to understand what is the labour experience, and if you are already working in MNCs you could probably understand what are the labour experience outside singapore.
Sounds like government never help us, but running like a private organization they have KPIs to attend to minimum employment figures, and anyways from looking at global perspective, I do support low wages but not most of their other policies, such as HDB and CPFs.
The world is a global world now, as a labourer, be it accountants, cleaners, metalworkers, General manager, managers etc etc if you are taking wages, you are a labourers, just that the terms and conditons is different, or the title given, and some can be bogus too, giving you a GM post, but you work like a General Motor or worker.
In a Global labour market, you sell yourself in a global market, not on our domestic wet or dry market ya. This mindset or paradigm shift of thinking must be change in order for you to accommodate the reality of what is happening. I know alots of people will be frustrated and angry over our govt open door policies, but that is the way it is, and my advices is that instead of mingling and blaming the society or the govt, which you have the right to do so, try to think where you are now, and what should you do to accomodate into such changes rather than wasting time on blaming and finger pointing. I can guarantee you, even if opposition govt took over, they will still adopt a FDI policies and expect you to be a global labourer. Because that is the way Singapore will have to go about, there is no 2 ways about it if you want this very country to progress. Unless you want to make Orchard Road back to be like JB backlane, then i have nothing to say, pack and go back taiwan.
And as a Global player, we need to compete wages with others, leaving our wages flexible is one of the key benefit to us, we let the market decide, and if you are talking about mini wages, most of our surrounding countries mini wages are much lower than what our bangalas workers are getting? Indonesia is US $180 per month, that is about S$220++ only, are we going into paying our old workers that amount??? I think if that is the case, someone is really going to kill someone.
Taking into the cost of living here, yes it is high, but if you are earning $1500, try to upgrade and make yourself more valuable, and the most important is live by your means, dun tell me you go clubbing n pubbings and buy expensive fashionable stuffs at ION, orchard while earning only a mere $3k in Singapore, you got to be crazy, even a 20k paid will find it difficult if that is the lifestyle of a Typical Singaporean.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The world is a global world now, as a labourer, be it accountants, cleaners, metalworkers, General manager, managers etc etc if you are taking wages, you are a labourers, just that the terms and conditons is different, or the title given, and some can be bogus too, giving you a GM post, but you work like a General Motor or worker.
In a Global labour market, you sell yourself in a global market, not on our domestic wet or dry market ya. This mindset or paradigm shift of thinking must be change in order for you to accommodate the reality of what is happening. I know alots of people will be frustrated and angry over our govt open door policies, but that is the way it is, and my advices is that instead of mingling and blaming the society or the govt, which you have the right to do so, try to think where you are now, and what should you do to accomodate into such changes rather than wasting time on blaming and finger pointing. I can guarantee you, even if opposition govt took over, they will still adopt a FDI policies and expect you to be a global labourer. Because that is the way Singapore will have to go about, there is no 2 ways about it if you want this very country to progress. Unless you want to make Orchard Road back to be like JB backlane, then i have nothing to say, pack and go back taiwan.
And as a Global player, we need to compete wages with others, leaving our wages flexible is one of the key benefit to us, we let the market decide, and if you are talking about mini wages, most of our surrounding countries mini wages are much lower than what our bangalas workers are getting? Indonesia is US $180 per month, that is about S$220++ only, are we going into paying our old workers that amount??? I think if that is the case, someone is really going to kill someone.
Taking into the cost of living here, yes it is high, but if you are earning $1500, try to upgrade and make yourself more valuable, and the most important is live by your means, dun tell me you go clubbing n pubbings and buy expensive fashionable stuffs at ION, orchard while earning only a mere $3k in Singapore, you got to be crazy, even a 20k paid will find it difficult if that is the lifestyle of a Typical Singaporean.
So long your post.
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Does minimum wage guarantee jobs for singaporean workers ?
If minimum wage cannot guarantee jobs for singaporean workers, what is the use of having a minimum wage ?
The issue should not be on minimum wage BUT how the government can ensure that workers can find jobs that can cover their cost of living.
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Originally posted by Seowlah:
Does minimum wage guarantee jobs for singaporean workers ?
If minimum wage cannot guarantee jobs for singaporean workers, what is the use of having a minimum wage ?
The issue should not be on minimum wage BUT how the government can ensure that workers can find jobs that can cover their cost of living.
The issue should not be on minimum wage BUT how the government can ensure that workers can find jobs that can cover their cost of living.
yes, that's right
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The world is a global world now, as a labourer, be it accountants, cleaners, metalworkers, General manager, managers etc etc if you are taking wages, you are a labourers, just that the terms and conditons is different, or the title given, and some can be bogus too, giving you a GM post, but you work like a General Motor or worker.
In a Global labour market, you sell yourself in a global market, not on our domestic wet or dry market ya. This mindset or paradigm shift of thinking must be change in order for you to accommodate the reality of what is happening. I know alots of people will be frustrated and angry over our govt open door policies, but that is the way it is, and my advices is that instead of mingling and blaming the society or the govt, which you have the right to do so, try to think where you are now, and what should you do to accomodate into such changes rather than wasting time on blaming and finger pointing. I can guarantee you, even if opposition govt took over, they will still adopt a FDI policies and expect you to be a global labourer. Because that is the way Singapore will have to go about, there is no 2 ways about it if you want this very country to progress. Unless you want to make Orchard Road back to be like JB backlane, then i have nothing to say, pack and go back taiwan.
And as a Global player, we need to compete wages with others, leaving our wages flexible is one of the key benefit to us, we let the market decide, and if you are talking about mini wages, most of our surrounding countries mini wages are much lower than what our bangalas workers are getting? Indonesia is US $180 per month, that is about S$220++ only, are we going into paying our old workers that amount??? I think if that is the case, someone is really going to kill someone.
Taking into the cost of living here, yes it is high, but if you are earning $1500, try to upgrade and make yourself more valuable, and the most important is live by your means, dun tell me you go clubbing n pubbings and buy expensive fashionable stuffs at ION, orchard while earning only a mere $3k in Singapore, you got to be crazy, even a 20k paid will find it difficult if that is the lifestyle of a Typical Singaporean.
Your brain is exactly the same like lionnoisy, never learn from mistakes. I thought I already rebutted you before regarding your globalisation (world without borders), still you choose to go into this.
Global labour market? Mean everybody can find job in Switzerland, US, UK, Norway, Japan, Denmark, etc?
If it's global labour market. Why is it that Australians get A$15 an hour stacking shelves and Singaporeans are getting less than SG$5?
Seriously, stop taking those psychotropics, you don't have much intelligence already, I surely don't want to see you as a vegetable selling vegetables in Joo Chiat.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Your brain is exactly the same like lionnoisy, never learn from mistakes. I thought I already rebutted you before regarding your globalisation (world without borders), still you choose to go into this.
Global labour market? Mean everybody can find job in Switzerland, US, UK, Norway, Japan, Denmark, etc?
If it's global labour market. Why is it that Australians get A$15 an hour stacking shelves and Singaporeans are getting less than SG$5?
Seriously, stop taking those psychotropics, you don't have much intelligence already, I surely don't want to see you as a vegetable selling vegetables in Joo Chiat.
that person referring to her gal - international one - okp what
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for some body claiming to stay in landed property, driving bmw and running pub would she know the misery/hardship of the needy
my ans is a big No for that particular person only
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'over' acedemics has this problem of defining the situation without taking in additional perspective.
I had such problems lately too....
Perhaps she'd fair better in evaluations for exam papers, but for forums, its more proper to put:
"I THINK"
"I think you should... I think you should..."
Cos she has no authority over what needy has to do. All she can give are merely, 'suggestions'.
Of course there are other problems with alot of statements each of us make, but this is a forum, not really a journal to publicise our findings... xD
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Originally posted by Seowlah:
Does minimum wage guarantee jobs for singaporean workers ?
If minimum wage cannot guarantee jobs for singaporean workers, what is the use of having a minimum wage ?
The issue should not be on minimum wage BUT how the government can ensure that workers can find jobs that can cover their cost of living.
The answer is Both....they are not necessary trade off.
I think certain jobs in SG that contribute directly to GDP should have a minimum wage attached to it and they should be held by citizens only. Particularly in the public housing sectors.
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Originally posted by Seowlah:
Does minimum wage guarantee jobs for singaporean workers ?
If minimum wage cannot guarantee jobs for singaporean workers, what is the use of having a minimum wage ?
The issue should not be on minimum wage BUT how the government can ensure that workers can find jobs that can cover their cost of living.
Minimum wage only ensure that if you work, you will be paid enough to start a family and have a decent life in Singapore.
It is different to say that the government should guarantee all singaporean a job then having certain jobs that are reserved for Singaporean only. For such jobs, like many in the civil service, you still need to compete with other singaporean.
To ensure that workers can find jobs, singapore gives you the opportunities to be educated to the highest level you can, provide training to upgrade you so that employers want you.
No decent society want to guarantee anybody any job, especially those who are lazy.
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So the conclusion is: PAP sucks,ask Bill Clinton to run our country.
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So the conclusion is: PAP sucks,ask Bill Clinton to run our country.
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aiyoh why u dont get it? lack of min wage result in exploitation. even in good times the wages will drop like fark due to wage fixing by employers
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The world is a global world now, as a labourer, be it accountants, cleaners, metalworkers, General manager, managers etc etc if you are taking wages, you are a labourers, just that the terms and conditons is different, or the title given, and some can be bogus too, giving you a GM post, but you work like a General Motor or worker.
In a Global labour market, you sell yourself in a global market, not on our domestic wet or dry market ya. This mindset or paradigm shift of thinking must be change in order for you to accommodate the reality of what is happening. I know alots of people will be frustrated and angry over our govt open door policies, but that is the way it is, and my advices is that instead of mingling and blaming the society or the govt, which you have the right to do so, try to think where you are now, and what should you do to accomodate into such changes rather than wasting time on blaming and finger pointing. I can guarantee you, even if opposition govt took over, they will still adopt a FDI policies and expect you to be a global labourer. Because that is the way Singapore will have to go about, there is no 2 ways about it if you want this very country to progress. Unless you want to make Orchard Road back to be like JB backlane, then i have nothing to say, pack and go back taiwan.
And as a Global player, we need to compete wages with others, leaving our wages flexible is one of the key benefit to us, we let the market decide, and if you are talking about mini wages, most of our surrounding countries mini wages are much lower than what our bangalas workers are getting? Indonesia is US $180 per month, that is about S$220++ only, are we going into paying our old workers that amount??? I think if that is the case, someone is really going to kill someone.
Taking into the cost of living here, yes it is high, but if you are earning $1500, try to upgrade and make yourself more valuable, and the most important is live by your means, dun tell me you go clubbing n pubbings and buy expensive fashionable stuffs at ION, orchard while earning only a mere $3k in Singapore, you got to be crazy, even a 20k paid will find it difficult if that is the lifestyle of a Typical Singaporean.
The world has been "global" since 1914. What exactly is this "global" world that everybody fusses about?
People like to talk about "free-trade", and how protectionism is bad, then rush ahead to sign an FTA with the US. And what does the US do? Launch "Buy American" policies. Is that what "Free Trade" is?
There is nothing "global" about minimum wage. Those who are in the "global" labour markets are probably working at some well paying MNC. The people who need minimum wages are people who are stuck in the "local" low paying jobs.
Seriously speaking, foreign MNCs are attracted to Singapore because of our low-wages? Really? Last I checked, Singaporeans are still flooding to work for foreign MNCs because they pay a hell lot more than local firms do. The difference in pay between a job at a local bank and a job at a foreign bank is in FOLDS.
FDI and foreign companies are attracted by low wages is partially true. They are attracted by the quality of the work force more often than not. Low local wages are more likely meant to keep people from getting out.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
The world has been "global" since 1914. What exactly is this "global" world that everybody fusses about?
People like to talk about "free-trade", and how protectionism is bad, then rush ahead to sign an FTA with the US. And what does the US do? Launch "Buy American" policies. Is that what "Free Trade" is?
There is nothing "global" about minimum wage. Those who are in the "global" labour markets are probably working at some well paying MNC. The people who need minimum wages are people who are stuck in the "local" low paying jobs.
Seriously speaking, foreign MNCs are attracted to Singapore because of our low-wages? Really? Last I checked, Singaporeans are still flooding to work for foreign MNCs because they pay a hell lot more than local firms do. The difference in pay between a job at a local bank and a job at a foreign bank is in FOLDS.
FDI and foreign companies are attracted by low wages is partially true. They are attracted by the quality of the work force more often than not. Low local wages are more likely meant to keep people from getting out.
This free trade thing is a scam
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
If it's global labour market. Why is it that Australians get A$15 an hour stacking shelves and Singaporeans are getting less than SG$5?
Because Australians are willing to pay more for the goods on those shelves :)
You pay $2.50-$3 for a bowl of noodles here because we employ cleaners from China who are willing to work for $600 a month, 12 hours a day. With a minimum wage as in some western nations, do you think you can get your noodles that cheaply?
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Your brain is exactly the same like lionnoisy, never learn from mistakes. I thought I already rebutted you before regarding your globalisation (world without borders), still you choose to go into this.
Global labour market? Mean everybody can find job in Switzerland, US, UK, Norway, Japan, Denmark, etc?
If it's global labour market. Why is it that Australians get A$15 an hour stacking shelves and Singaporeans are getting less than SG$5?
Seriously, stop taking those psychotropics, you don't have much intelligence already, I surely don't want to see you as a vegetable selling vegetables in Joo Chiat.
Sori, I never take your advice and posting seriously, cos it all about smiling faces, kind of a joke to me. On the contrary, why should i listen to you??? U pay me every month ar?? -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
The world has been "global" since 1914. What exactly is this "global" world that everybody fusses about?
People like to talk about "free-trade", and how protectionism is bad, then rush ahead to sign an FTA with the US. And what does the US do? Launch "Buy American" policies. Is that what "Free Trade" is?
There is nothing "global" about minimum wage. Those who are in the "global" labour markets are probably working at some well paying MNC. The people who need minimum wages are people who are stuck in the "local" low paying jobs.
Seriously speaking, foreign MNCs are attracted to Singapore because of our low-wages? Really? Last I checked, Singaporeans are still flooding to work for foreign MNCs because they pay a hell lot more than local firms do. The difference in pay between a job at a local bank and a job at a foreign bank is in FOLDS.
FDI and foreign companies are attracted by low wages is partially true. They are attracted by the quality of the work force more often than not. Low local wages are more likely meant to keep people from getting out.
The world is a globe after all, it started long even before 1914, from the begining of this existence, so to speak. The differences is when one get affected by the global market, one start to realize the impact of it existence. Our workforce had been working in a conceived domestic labour market from 60s to late 80s while serving a global world business. But the diversity of business and the booming of dot com and internet had swayed the inconnectivity among not only global business expansion, but also global labour interchangability and employment. One who had been accustomed to believeing his/her experiences, knowledge and skills in this domestic market suddenly found his/her competitors all across the global. In that very instance, one should know that he/she is selling in a global market and no more a domestic one. And if one fail to realize that, it matter of time, he/she will become dinosaur and suffer the impact of globalisation which one truely get to knows.
Like or not, the world had slowly embraced capitalism, industrialisation and technologies, even the commies are going into it, by churning out many billionaires from all these commie countries, you should know where they are going. Capitalism is not really a good system, but nevertheless, better than many other systems, on that note, as a Transnational organisation, what expectations do you want before investing in country, think for yourself, it you are the boss of a big MNC. A 3 years old baby will tell you to save operating cost as much as possible. Our wages are moderate in comparing with a developed country, but against developing countries, we are certainly higher. But a 10 years old gal will tell you, you also needs to look at the infrastructual, facilities, trust and honesty, financial flexibility, system and efficiency, skill and knowledge of workforce in that particular country you want to invest in, because all these intangible factors are essential for business. And we Singapore, is in no doubt, provided that better than most of the countries around this region.
For instance, some countries can have $2 per day paid labour, but if every day electricity stop here and there, order part that comes in months, road to port is completely block up by riots, ship delays, strikes, workers absent, sabotage, and even you teach them a 100 x they still dun understand how the machine works, you better close shop...
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Because Australians are willing to pay more for the goods on those shelves :)
You pay $2.50-$3 for a bowl of noodles here because we employ cleaners from China who are willing to work for $600 a month, 12 hours a day. With a minimum wage as in some western nations, do you think you can get your noodles that cheaply?
That is the worst kind of reasoning....in this day and age. The kind that PAP would publish on news paper.
Perharps you should look at the Hamburger Price Index and compared minimum wage.
McDonald Classic Taste - Double Cheese Burger at US$1.19
Minimum wage at US$8.00/Hour
Pls tell me how much you pay for Double Cheese Burger in SG Dollar?
What is the Hourly Wage level?
Not to mention that individual who work in Burger joints minimum legally are entitle to Overtime pay. Workman Compensation contribute by employer.
not to mention other benefit if any.
Are you sure it is because US$600 a month help to curtail your bowl of noodle to be $3 only?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Sori, I never take your advice and posting seriously, cos it all about smiling faces, kind of a joke to me. On the contrary, why should i listen to you??? U pay me every month ar??That is because you are an idiot with a pea size brain that has nothng other than coconut Tody. Why don't you go and eat ice cream and fuck your daddy.
Yeah that is my New Year Wish to you...Get S.T.D. for the new year.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Because Australians are willing to pay more for the goods on those shelves :)
You pay $2.50-$3 for a bowl of noodles here because we employ cleaners from China who are willing to work for $600 a month, 12 hours a day. With a minimum wage as in some western nations, do you think you can get your noodles that cheaply?
It is not because the Australian are willing to pay more it is for once they have a higher level of disposable income.
Stop pushing the stupid button of the media.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
That is the worst kind of reasoning....in this day and age. The kind that PAP would publish on news paper.
Perharps you should look at the Hamburger Price Index and compared minimum wage.
McDonald Classic Taste - Double Cheese Burger at US$1.19
Minimum wage at US$8.00/Hour
Pls tell me how much you pay for Double Cheese Burger in SG Dollar?
What is the Hourly Wage level?
Not to mention that individual who work in Burger joints minimum legally are entitle to Overtime pay. Workman Compensation contribute by employer.
not to mention other benefit if any.
Are you sure it is because US$600 a month help to curtail your bowl of noodle to be $3 only?
Actually in this case I would agree with oxford his reasoning is sound to me.
I would think the key words are "willing to work for low pay".
Maybe that's why Singaporeans are not happy with China/India immigrants. Would I be wrong to say they are willing to work for low pay?
That and if you as a Singaporean cannot match it you would have zero pay lol
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Actually in this case I would agree with oxford his reasoning is sound to me.
I would think the key words are "willing to work for low pay".
Maybe that's why Singaporeans are not happy with China/India immigrants. Would I be wrong to say they are willing to work for low pay?
That and if you as a Singaporean cannot match it you would have zero pay lol
You can work for low pay but not to the point of negative cash flow at individual level?
Minimum wage by means to provide a Humanized the individual for their work.
There is no way for Singapore to compete their wage against China. And why should we ? Does it means that Singapore has to be paid under RMB to compete so that you maintain your bowl of noodle for 3 bucks.