Minimum Wage – The Good, the Bad and the Truth
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Would it take a civil servant longer to gain promotion than a governmental scholarship holder who is ever ready to comply? (photo by: ThuandND)
Employee Promotion in the Civil Sector
By Christopher Ong
Published: October 28, 2009
This article was originally published on the 11th of October. Revisions were made to the earlier article for republishing.
Stanley Milgram’s obedience experiments in the 1960s revealed the stark psychological process through which obedience to authority seemingly overrode the moral imperatives of its subjects. An aspect of Milgram’s obedience experiments could be relevant the civil sector in Singapore: the fact that with an added dissenting voice with the principle authority figure, whether in the form of another experimenter or teacher, the obedience rate was greatly reduced. These considerations can be applied to the process of employee promotion in the Singapore civil sector that appear to reward loyalty and obedience to an authoritative figure. These implications point out a need for a diminishing role for these authoritative figures in the civil sector while increasing the influence of peers and subordinates.Milgram recruited experimental subjects that delivered electric shocks to ‘learners’ as they made mistakes. Eighty per cent of them delivered ‘very strong’ shocks of 200 volts, and 60 percent delivered the maximum intensity, despite screams of pain from the learners. Subjects hovered over a common theme of ‘loyalty’ and ‘duty’ to the experimenter for their reasons of doing so. The only thing that reduced the rate of obedience was the presence in the room of other people – whether ‘teachers’ or another ‘experimenter’ — that disagreed with the principal authority figure.
The lesson drawn from the Milgram experiments that individuals were willing to perform an action irrespective of its content in order to show compliance to an authoritative figure and possibly obtain reward for evidence of this loyalty is transmutable to the process of employee promotion in the civil sector. The pivotal factor in decisions of promotion in civil service lies squarely with authoritative figures helming the various ministries in the civil sector. An employee’s subordinates or peers generally do not have a say in whether the employee receives promotion within the civil sector. Thus, more often than not, civil servants are keen to impress upon these authoritative figures qualities of loyalty, compliance and obedience in order to meet with their approval — not unlike the subjects of Milgram’s experiments.
The motivations for civil servants doing so are arguably stronger than that of Milgram’s case: whereas subjects in the experiment are not promised any form of reward for their compliance, and have the liberty to leave the experimental room at any point they wish, modern employees in the civil service in Singapore are often weighed down by contractual, scholarship or bond obligations and other factors concerning that of their income, family sustenance and livelihood — that would certainly improve with the prospects of a promotion. In this regard, civil servants are arguably willing to execute acts that show compliance to authority irrespective of the content of these acts more than the subjects of Milgram’s experiments.
If at any point of time a civil servant disregards obedience or compliance to the orders of an authoritative figure for reasons of her conscience, she would very likely hurt her very own chance of a promotion. This is simply because it is in the self-interest of superiors and authoritative figures to command the loyalty and obedience of their subordinates. If the power to actually decide a promotion lies strongly in the hands of these authoritative figures, and if the employee decides to work against the interest of these individuals, then she directly harms her own chances of securing a promotion.
The problem here lies with the strictly authoritarian nature of civil service that mirrors the power structure of the Milgram experiments. If we wish to avoid the possible moral conflict where an unethical action is carried out solely in respect for compliance to an authority without regard to the ethical nature of its content, then we need to rework the authoritarian nature of the civil service in Singapore, and more specifically as is the focus our consideration here, the authoritarian process of civil service promotion.
As in the Milgram experiments, a decrease in the rate of obedience to authority is noticed when more alternative opinions are introduced from either another ‘experimenter’ or ‘teacher’ that contrasts with the figure of authority of the principal experimenter. The unethical action of a continued deliverance of a stronger electric jolt to a person screaming in pain is often halted in this scenario. If we were to apply a corresponding move in the civil service of Singapore, it would be to democratize the process of civil servant promotion — that is to say, the concentrated role of authoritative figures in decisions of promotion must be diminished, and more significance in the decision must be accorded to the peers and subordinates of the civil servant. This would decrease the likelihood of an absolute obedience to a single authority that may result in a similar unethical action in the civil service.
A possible critique of such a move would be to argue that this only merely increases the amount of authoritative figures, but does not remove the possibility of an unethical action carried out in compliance to these new ‘authority’ figures if they can all come to agree. In extreme scenarios, this may actually create a stronger case for the employee to comply. For instance, if the introduction of additional experimenters and teachers in the Milgram experiment can all come to a common viewpoint that the ‘teacher’ should proceed to deliver the shocks no matter the screams from the ‘learner’, the subject in the case of the experiment may be more severely pushed to comply.
Although the introduction of extra deciding agents in the process of promoting an employee within a civil service does not completely remove such a possibility, it does in fact decrease the chance of all these agents agreeing on an absolute viewpoint. To further expand the base from which opinions and reviews are solicited and factored in the promotion process is to further decrease the possibility of all agents simultaneously concurring. There is a lesser likelihood of a complete agreement the greater a sample size we procure reviews to factor in a promotional decision from.
It is a clear that in the process of employee promotion, the role of the employee’s superior as an absolute authoritative figure ought to be diminished. If the decision of promoting an individual in a civil service is not decided solely by the employee’s superior, and the power of decision is instead spread out through canvassing a reasonable amount of peer and subordinate reviews and appraisals, the legitimacy of a hitherto absolute opinion may be challenged and conflicted. Through the democratization of the process of promoting an employee, we may perhaps truly prevent another parallel of Milgram’s experiment from formalizing in the civil service workplace.
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What irony?
Singapore worker's wages have to compete with 3rd world country, but PAP Minister's pay can't even compete with advanced economies like Switzerland, US, Japan, UK, Denmark, etc.
Hypocrites!
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Originally posted by Wmyongj:
Dont understand why discussing minimum wage when Singaporean is among the most well paid in the world.
You talking about ministers only?
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if this min wage thing dont work , why are other western economies adopt this system for
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in western countries,..wages are not bent to political or national agendas at the blood n pain of its citizens.
in spore.........just use a lil bit of imagination n the minimum wage is also a future farce....no need to think twice n already know the result of future mini wage in spore one.............
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Originally posted by ☃®:
if this min wage thing dont work , why are other western economies adopt this system for
We are testing it out for ministers' salaries first.
To see if paying them a salary that is pegged as a % to the top private sector earners will affect their performance.
We don't want to pay a minimum salary only to have people not do any work or not take any responsibility for any errors.
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Minimum wage is for people who have minimal talent, what good would that do? Merely pandering to the inferior. Furthermore if we have this policy, the next thing u know, it costs $800 to hire a maid.
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
Minimum wage is for people who have minimal talent, what good would that do? Merely pandering to the inferior. Furthermore if we have this policy, the next thing u know, it costs $800 to hire a maid.
Huh? I thought there's alrdy a min wage law for hiring a maid in singapore? -
Originally posted by mlmersrlosers:
Huh? I thought there's alrdy a min wage law for hiring a maid in singapore?Some are set by their own home country
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
Minimum wage is for people who have minimal talent, what good would that do? Merely pandering to the inferior. Furthermore if we have this policy, the next thing u know, it costs $800 to hire a maid.
Minimum wage for Minimal Talent........are you sure???? Would you work for a job that pay SG$800 a month in Singapore?
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
Minimum wage is for people who have minimal talent, what good would that do? Merely pandering to the inferior. Furthermore if we have this policy, the next thing u know, it costs $800 to hire a maid.
Minimum wage is a social policy, to ensure locals who works get the minimum to live a decent life in Singapore. Lowly paid workers give what they have to earn what they get, they are by no means inferior in any moral sense.The "elite" , the "talent" of Singapore, the way they like to call themselves, many are morally bankrupt!
Maids are on contract, come here to work for 2 yrs, with food and lodging provided, we don't pay them to build their home in Singapore.
To compare a local with a maid is really no talent, and smack of inferiority complex.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Minimum wage is a social policy, to ensure locals who works get the minimum to live a decent life in Singapore. Lowly paid workers give what they have to earn what they get, they are by no means inferior in any moral sense.The "elite" , the "talent" of Singapore, the way they like to call themselves, many are morally bankrupt!
Maids are on contract, come here to work for 2 yrs, with food and lodging provided, we don't pay them to build their home in Singapore.
To compare a local with a maid is really no talent, and smack of inferiority complex.
Well said...
Applause.
If only Shanmugam had suggested a 'moral and social responsibility' education course...
..instead of a 'political' education course...
we might have warmed up to him and the MIW.
He could have scored a point... but he missed the opportunity.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Minimum wage for Minimal Talent........are you sure???? Would you work for a job that pay SG$800 a month in Singapore?
I wouldn't, but if you're that unqualified, how much do you deserve to be paid?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Minimum wage is a social policy, to ensure locals who works get the minimum to live a decent life in Singapore. Lowly paid workers give what they have to earn what they get, they are by no means inferior in any moral sense.The "elite" , the "talent" of Singapore, the way they like to call themselves, many are morally bankrupt!
Maids are on contract, come here to work for 2 yrs, with food and lodging provided, we don't pay them to build their home in Singapore.
To compare a local with a maid is really no talent, and smack of inferiority complex.
Morally no one is inferior, however a decent life is not a god given right, but rather a reward for those capable and fortunate enough to get it. It begins with the minimum wage, then the dole, and finally a welfare state. Years down the road you'll see drunks on dole bumming around in the park. With minimum wage prices will only serve to increase further, shops having to pay their workers a high wage will have to raise prices. When you have to buy chicken rice at $5 in the coffeeshop, whats next? The money always comes from somewhere, from the people.
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
I wouldn't, but if you're that unqualified, how much do you deserve to be paid?
why don't you look at the burger price index....
In the US...a typical Burger Meal that comes with Coke, Fries, and a decent size burger is between $5.50 - $6.50
The minimum wage is US$8.00/ hr. do your math....
Pls let me know how much do you get paid per hour to work in a burger join in SG and how much you paid for a burger meal set?
What qualification you need to work behind a burger joint?
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
Morally no one is inferior, however a decent life is not a god given right, but rather a reward for those capable and fortunate enough to get it. It begins with the minimum wage, then the dole, and finally a welfare state. Years down the road you'll see drunks on dole bumming around in the park. With minimum wage prices will only serve to increase further, shops having to pay their workers a high wage will have to raise prices. When you have to buy chicken rice at $5 in the coffeeshop, whats next? The money always comes from somewhere, from the people.
I agree that a decent life is not a given right, if we live in a jungle, we fight as individual and prosper even at the expense of others; as we become more civilized, we learn to give but make sure we also take; when our society become more developed, we must think about those who are not so fortunate or capable, we need to learn to give without always thinking about getting something in return.
Will minimum wage always lead to a welfare state? I don't think so.
We have allowed hawker stall rental to increase without fear of an increase in price of chicken rice, as it is, today there is no minimum wage, has price of chicken rice stays the same? wet markets are sold to convert to supermark, profits go to the landlord, hawker centers are turned into food court, rentals go up, the money must come from somewhere, but where do the profits go?
When a fellow citizen works but is not paid enough to live a decent life, he might as well bum in the park, even if there is not drunk.
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How will even graduates survive this relentless increase in cost of living over the past few years?
And we're not even talking about the lesser educated who earn way much lower wages.
Haiz.
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We have reached the point of too many graduates chasing too few graduate jobs......
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Originally posted by charlize:
How will even graduates survive this relentless increase in cost of living over the past few years?
And we're not even talking about the lesser educated who earn way much lower wages.
Haiz.
Thats life, so you just gotta keep ahead of the rest. Without minimum wage prices already so high, with it...
For all you know employers might take the chance to let their employees who might have earned more originally accept the minimum wage, using the "If others can, so can you" mentality
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Prices high because of too many Foreign Talents, why you think HDB skyrocketed these few years (demand > supply).
Before the PAP's policy of open door to foreign talents, prices were still manageable.
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Originally posted by Hitman3:
angel7030,
the minimum wage is commandeered by the politicians only.he is the main player,...
people get reskilled from the time they entered the job industry when they were sent to the place they work in.........if a person has really entered any workplace sin ce they finished schooling than it tells alot about you.have YOU WORKED OUTSIDE FIRST OF ALL OR NOT??REAL OR NOT FROM YUR THEORY OF UPGRADING ON SKILLS.I ASSURE YOU THE PEOPLE TEACHING THE SKILLS IN YOUR CLASSROOMS ARE THE ONES WORKING IN THAT INDUSTRY FOR YEARS.AND TO TELL U THE TRUTH NO ONE WOULD WANNA TEACH ANYONE VALUABLE HIGH TECH SKILLS DIRECT FROM WERKPLACE,USUALLY THOSE U GET ARE OLD TECHNOLOGY OR ALMOST OBSOLETE.SO IF U TRY GIVIN HOPE TO YERSELF BOUT UPGRADING YERSELF GET DEGREE GET FURTHER PAPERWERK FROM LOCAL INSTITUTES THEN U WILL BE FER A BIG NASTY SHOCK....A VERY EXPENSIVE TIME WASTING SHOCK.
DID ANYONE HERE NEED TO GO TO SCHOOL TO LEARN A COMPUTER?HOW TO INSTALL WINDOWS SOFTWARE HOW TO BUILD IT????ITS FROM INTEREST ...UPGRADING ONLY CAN DO 50% ONLY THE OTHER 50% IS FROM PERSON.
ANGEL7030:, as a market driven free economy we embraced, we must allow for flexibilities in wages, we ourselves must make our marketable and needed by the industries created here.
HITMAN3:THE FLEXIBILITY IS FIXED BY THE MINISTERS...CHANCES OF THEY FIXING YUR SLARY TO 50 CENTS /HOUR IS HIGH AS LONG AS NO ONE QUESTIONS THEM!CURRENTLY MOST INDUSTRIES IN TECHNOLOGY ARE MOVING OUT OF SPORE.....WHEN THEY MOVE EVEN BUSINESS SELLING DURIANS WILL CLOSE DOWN.
ANGEL7030:Fourth, as a country of no natural resource, we depend on business from both local and foreign, our flexi wage system was one the main attraction for people invest here, and for years we had provern again and again, that without a mini wage system, we performed much better than our surrounding region that impose mini wage system. We are definitely one if not two class higher than our competitor in term of labour progression.
HITMAN3:IT WAS DONE AT A GREAT COST OF MANY GOOD,SMART AND HARDWOREKING SINGAPOREANS.THEIR LOSS AND SACRIFICES CANNOT BE MADE UP BY MANY A HUMS OR OLD ARMCHAIR THEORY.
PEOPLE DONT NEED LABOUR ANYMORE...ITS ROBOTIFCS AND HIGH TECHNOLOGY THAT DONT NEED PEOPLE TO PRODUCE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INA YEAR.HUMANS N LABOUR CANT DO THAT MUCH.GO LEARN FROM THE JAPANESE ORHIGHER CLASS PEOPLE!
I am surprise that Hitman can HUM tam wisdom so elegantly into the hic Angel.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Prices high because of too many Foreign Talents, why you think HDB skyrocketed these few years (demand > supply).
Before the PAP's policy of open door to foreign talents, prices were still manageable.
Property prices in cities usually are high, it was only a matter of time
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minimum wage is to protect workers from being exploited from unsrupulous employers.
how much is the pay of a crew at fast food restuarants now? still 3 an hour? if worked at 10 hours, the pay per day is 30 dollars or so nia, comparing how much the restuarants earned so much in a day.
is that fair if the restaurant earned 5k a day and crew pay is a mere 30?
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Originally posted by Vader1337:
Property prices in cities usually are high, it was only a matter of time
But seriously, the wage levels in Singapore doesn't support the property price levels. The abnormally high price level of Singapore properties is a result of an open door policy by the PAP government, which in the future will have dire repercussions to Singapore.
Look at how much folks in Australia are making for their properties to be priced at that level.
You get A$15 an hour for stacking shelves in the supermarket in Australia.
Your average accounts clerk in Australia makes A$3,000 a month + super. How much does an accounts clerk in Singapore get?
http://www.seek.com.au/job/administration-officer/perth-inner/16459095/72/1/
The sad truth is, the PAP government has betrayed Singapore workers by importing cheap foreign labour, upsetting the wage levels. When supply of labour is unlimited like China & India, demand for these labour are fixed, your wages will be suppressed to the max.
Singapore's wage level is 1/3 to 1/2 of Australia's, yet the property prices are more expensive than Australia. Shouldn't it be 1/3 to 1/2 of Australia's.