Nobel Peace Prize 2009
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Arafat was dying of Aids. Why assassinate him?
Hitler is still alive too.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
Hitler is still alive too.
where did you heard it from?
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
In that case, USA should start first by including itself in its own State Department human rights report.It has no rights complaining about the authoritarian societies of other countries when it has the largest percentage of its own citizens imprisoned.
It has no rights insisting that other countries let their banks fail when it did not.
It has no rights complaining about Iran supporting terrorisms in the Middle East when it did the same against the Soviet Union.
It wants Iran's nuclear facilities to be opened to international weapons inspectors but does not allow the same thing in its own country.
This is an open forum, it's just discussion and doesn't have any policy setting powers.
Find it funny that we can criticize all we want about China and Singapore but somehow it's hands off for America?
The thing with a generic word Peace than everyone has an opinion.
But all of you miss out one point isn't..........Did Obama wanted the Award? Did he consciously petition for that Award?
He already said he did not deserve the award....so what else is there to say? To date no elected leaders has not accepted the nomination. Should a leader of a country snub Oslo?
Oslo wanted to stick it to President Bush....But Oslo is also saying that it agreed with Obama administration of reducing unilateral policies but more diplomacy thru negotiation. Thereby, changing the tone in world tension particularly nuclear proliferation.
So if any of you cannot read simple interpretation of Oslo that’s too bad.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
what stupid mentality is this? you mean when LKY get some kind of award, then we can criticize Obama?
To those who voted for Obama, they were just putting their hope on him,
To those who didn't vote for him, they are still watching how he perform,
To those who never get to vote, but already say he is a star, they are just po lan pah!
Perharps you should be looking at how mature is Singapore politics before talking about why american voted for Obama?
the fear from most foreign government and political entity is the fear of the influence obama has on their own people. Russia has news black out when Obama visited moscow. Iran has some taste of Obama influence.
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Oslo decision isn't that dumb....they're using obama star power to gather people to listen. At least Oslo know how to use its influence to get the message across with maximum impact. Obama is using the platform to talks about nuclear proliferation and reduction of tension globally.
So before you tanish the award or cynical about the award look at the means rather than the end.
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Returning to the idea of Peace, its interesting to see that the same group of people who voiced strong support for Bush Jr's unilateral (and self defeating) military policies, Israeli warcrimes (in the Occupied Territories) and adventurism (in Lebanon) and human rights abuses of muslims worldwide are the same people who are against the Nobel Peace Prize award to Obama.
There is a certain political trend that unifies these viewpoints and I find is disgusting that so called educated people can support it since it is rooted a very narrow and self serving interest that is so clearly destructive. In the US and abroad, those who support this trend can now be seen to be very clearly in opposition to the activities that entails Peaceful (and profitable) coexistence (tolerance and understanding, facts based opinions, diplomacy etc).
This group now is so bankrupt in progressive ideas that they need to rely on misdirection, character assassination, threats of violence, sweeping remarks, falsification of facts and perpetuation of ignorant propaganda in order to bolster popular support for their worldview. Everywhere people are doing a double take and going "with friends like these, who needs enemies".
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Perharps you should be looking at how mature is Singapore politics before talking about why american voted for Obama?
the fear from most foreign government and political entity is the fear of the influence obama has on their own people. Russia has news black out when Obama visited moscow. Iran has some taste of Obama influence.
I won't compare the maturity of Signapore politics with that of america. Singapore is less than 60 years old while america is over 200. If we talk about why the american voted for Obama, you should be looking at why Singaporean are not voting for the opposition. the immaturity of Singapore politics may reflect much on how conservative the general electorate and the supporters of the ruling party, but more so on the naivety of the opposition critics, no?
People are looking for a change from the usual hawkish attitude of the american government brought about by the Bush administration. The world over is looking for something new, just like the american. Obama promised to change, start with the american healthcare system...but whether he will deliver is way too early to see.
Noble prize should be awarded to people who have ACHIEVED, not as an encouragement to those who promise to achieve.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
The thing with a generic word Peace than everyone has an opinion.
But all of you miss out one point isn't..........Did Obama wanted the Award? Did he consciously petition for that Award?
He already said he did not deserve the award....so what else is there to say? To date no elected leaders has not accepted the nomination. Should a leader of a country snub Oslo?
Oslo wanted to stick it to President Bush....But Oslo is also saying that it agreed with Obama administration of reducing unilateral policies but more diplomacy thru negotiation. Thereby, changing the tone in world tension particularly nuclear proliferation.
So if any of you cannot read simple interpretation of Oslo that’s too bad.
the critics is more on how inappropriate Oslo decision is, not so much on why Obama want to have it. Can't understand? too bad.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
the critics is more on how inappropriate Oslo decision is, not so much on why Obama want to have it. Can't understand? too bad.
Did you not read what was posted? there was a fudge on his decision reference to the peace award...That is why i said a Generic term will spike up opinion but most people forgotten that he is the US President and he is doing what he sees the US interest?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
I won't compare the maturity of Signapore politics with that of america. Singapore is less than 60 years old while america is over 200. If we talk about why the american voted for Obama, you should be looking at why Singaporean are not voting for the opposition. the immaturity of Singapore politics may reflect much on how conservative the general electorate and the supporters of the ruling party, but more so on the naivety of the opposition critics, no?
People are looking for a change from the usual hawkish attitude of the american government brought about by the Bush administration. The world over is looking for something new, just like the american. Obama promised to change, start with the american healthcare system...but whether he will deliver is way too early to see.
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Noble prize should be awarded to people who have ACHIEVED, not as an encouragement to those who promise to achieve
Obversely that is for the foundation to decide..........
American healthcare system is a domestics issued....again you can't wait to fudge domestics politics with international outlook.
Hawkish attitude....on the contrary i think the foundation is saying that they preferred Obama new attitude....that is part of sticking to Bush....
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Did you not read what was posted? there was a fudge on his decision reference to the peace award...That is why i said a Generic term will spike up opinion but most people forgotten that he is the US President and he is doing what he sees the US interest?
he is the US President and he is doing what he sees the US interest?
this sentence is right, the US president does what he sees fit in the interest of the US, that is why there is so much disagreement about him getting the peace award, for he hasn't done anything in the interest of the peace of the world. Afterall, it is the american people who elected him.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Noble prize should be awarded to people who have ACHIEVED, not as an encouragement to those who promise to achieve
Obversely that is for the foundation to decide..........
American healthcare system is a domestics issued....again you can't wait to fudge domestics politics with international outlook.
Hawkish attitude....on the contrary i think the foundation is saying that they preferred Obama new attitude....that is part of sticking to Bush....
sure it is for the foundation to decide, but at this time and this age, people have the right to voice their agreement or disagreement.
I am not a fan of bush administration, but when and if another terrorist attack on the US soil in the magnitude, or bigger, than the crushing of the twin towers, I am not sure if Obama would not do what Bush would have done.
Why is there any surprise that a non white can be an american president, why a black who got elected as president become a star even before he show any result?? this only happen to people who have preconceived idea that non white or black cannot be president of the US. I din't know that there are such racists around.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
he is the US President and he is doing what he sees the US interest?
this sentence is right, the US president does what he sees fit in the interest of the US, that is why there is so much disagreement about him getting the peace award, for he hasn't done anything in the interest of the peace of the world. Afterall, it is the american people who elected him.
Perharps you have ignore that in the US election system it allow the States to reinvent itself and its idealogy....it doesn't necessary prescribe to the past policies. and the European like what they saw.
Contrary to Singapore, our politician told us not to Tort the system....and most Singaporean forgot to think outside the system Box because it would means a lost of references. Worst still they forgot there is a "Choice"
Your presumption of the US President are cynical and skeptics. Well if the issued is about reduction of nuclear than perharps you should be looking at who is holding back the support....China -- Oil interest, Russia -- energy deal.
Do you honestly think that European is blind? Iran is just south of their border.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
sure it is for the foundation to decide, but at this time and this age, people have the right to voice their agreement or disagreement.
I am not a fan of bush administration, but when and if another terrorist attack on the US soil in the magnitude, or bigger, than the crushing of the twin towers, I am not sure if Obama would not do what Bush would have done.
Why is there any surprise that a non white can be an american president, why a black who got elected as president become a star even before he show any result?? this only happen to people who have preconceived idea that non white or black cannot be president of the US. I din't know that there are such racists around.
The only reason there is so much disagreement that you heard are from right wing politics and foreign govt interest who would like to see that he is being discredited particularly on his star power. His abilities to influence people are extremely powerful that nobody can stop him.
That is precisely the same reason why Oslo would want him to lead his peace initiative.
We simply disagree. . . . He got the prize for what he has done," committee Chairman Thorbjorn Jagland said by telephone from Strasbourg, France. Jagland singled out Obama’s efforts to heal the divide between the West and the Muslim world and scale down a Bush-era proposal for an anti-missile shield in Europe. "All these things have contributed to — I wouldn’t say a safer world — but a world with less tension," he said. For nine-year Nobel committee veteran Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, Obama’s demeanor spoke volumes when he first acknowledged the award during a news conference Friday in Washington.
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The peace prize is to pressure President Obama to resolve the Afghan conflict. Obama relieved this pressure by donating his prize money to charity.
I would prefer to see him put more effort to address the global climate change.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
The peace prize is to pressure President Obama to resolve the Afghan conflict. Obama relieved this pressure by donating his prize money to charity.
I would prefer to see him put more effort to address the global climate change.
not to pour cold water but we are still a long way to agreement on this topics of global climate change.
This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.
And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.
So what on Earth is going on?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Perharps you have ignore that in the US election system it allow the States to reinvent itself and its idealogy....it doesn't necessary prescribe to the past policies. and the European like what they saw.
Contrary to Singapore, our politician told us not to Tort the system....and most Singaporean forgot to think outside the system Box because it would means a lost of references. Worst still they forgot there is a "Choice"
Your presumption of the US President are cynical and skeptics. Well if the issued is about reduction of nuclear than perharps you should be looking at who is holding back the support....China -- Oil interest, Russia -- energy deal.
Do you honestly think that European is blind? Iran is just south of their border.
First the white annihilated the indigenous people of north america, enslave the blacks to build the country, then along the over 200 yrs of nation building, presidents and politicians assasinated, soldiers shooting at students in campus, ...or put it another way, the indians gave up their entire tribes, the black gave up their freedom, politicians (even presidents) and civil right leaders sacrificed to shape the country to what it is today.
Singapore will not go very far with opposition only know how to sit behind the monitor talking c o c k. what "choice" is there for Singaporean?
Do you honestly think that Singaporean are blind?
I make no preassumption of the US president, he is elected by the american people, american interest come first, no problem with that, what happened outside of the US, unless it affects the US, it is not on their agenda. that you can take it to the bank.
With the US holding the largest nuclear arsenal, even after the cold war, there is no morale highground for any US supporters to criticise others on nuclear issue. How Obama intend to resolve the Iran issue is yet to be seen.
But first, he has to get the american people to support his health reform, that is a start to see if there is light from the star.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
The only reason there is so much disagreement that you heard are from right wing politics and foreign govt interest who would like to see that he is being discredited particularly on his star power. His abilities to influence people are extremely powerful that nobody can stop him.
That is precisely the same reason why Oslo would want him to lead his peace initiative.
We simply disagree. . . . He got the prize for what he has done," committee Chairman Thorbjorn Jagland said by telephone from Strasbourg, France. Jagland singled out Obama’s efforts to heal the divide between the West and the Muslim world and scale down a Bush-era proposal for an anti-missile shield in Europe. "All these things have contributed to — I wouldn’t say a safer world — but a world with less tension," he said. For nine-year Nobel committee veteran Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, Obama’s demeanor spoke volumes when he first acknowledged the award during a news conference Friday in Washington.
The world has just begun to know who he is. Why would anybody want to discredit him, if he were a star with so influential power?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
not to pour cold water but we are still a long way to agreement on this topics of global climate change.
This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.
And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.
So what on Earth is going on?
what is left to a global agreement on climate change is for the US to sign the Kyoto Protocol.
Is it true that "For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures"?
The Earth is suffering, fever over 29 degree, but funny leh, the thermometer didn't show anything.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
First the white annihilated the indigenous people of north america, enslave the blacks to build the country, then along the over 200 yrs of nation building, presidents and politicians assasinated, soldiers shooting at students in campus, ...or put it another way, the indians gave up their entire tribes, the black gave up their freedom, politicians (even presidents) and civil right leaders sacrificed to shape the country to what it is today.
Singapore will not go very far with opposition only know how to sit behind the monitor talking c o c k. what "choice" is there for Singaporean?
Do you honestly think that Singaporean are blind?
I make no preassumption of the US president, he is elected by the american people, american interest come first, no problem with that, what happened outside of the US, unless it affects the US, it is not on their agenda. that you can take it to the bank.
With the US holding the largest nuclear arsenal, even after the cold war, there is no morale highground for any US supporters to criticise others on nuclear issue. How Obama intend to resolve the Iran issue is yet to be seen.
But first, he has to get the american people to support his health reform, that is a start to see if there is light from the star.
Healthcare reform? Maybe by watching all the news and rightwing politics you think he got no support? perharps it is until now that you get to understanding the process of American politics to move agenda thru this of course it is a far cry from the PAP parliment. Because there are no debates. There are no people voice in Singapore!!!
Singaporean are not going anywhere if PAP are siting there without any opposition party to loud mouth...so just because you are blinded by censorship news. doesn;t mean that there are no voice.....perharps it is not in your TV remote control.
So until you have an idea how to move Singapore politics forward you are stuck with your own remote control.
Nuclear proliferation issued is a global issued. Why would Iran and NK only be a US interest? The US could simply sit back and let Israeli take care of the threat. Do you honestly think the Israeli will sit and wait if negociation are going no where?
On the other hand lets not turn the eyes away from others partners such as Russia and China who has great oil contract with Iran and its profit from US war.
The Chinese workers – several hundred technicians – are part of a multibillion-dollar Chinese investment in Afghanistan’s largest-ever infrastructure project, the Aynak copper mine.
America fights, China profits?
In making the case for converging U.S. and Chinese interests in Afghanistan, Robert Kaplan wrote last week in a New York Times opinion piece that, "The problem is that while America is sacrificing its blood and treasure, the Chinese will reap the benefits. The whole direction of America’s military and diplomatic effort is toward an exit strategy, whereas the CAmerica fights, China profits?To Assume that it is only Obama has the responsibilities to negociat iran nuclear weapon intention....maybe that is why he Deserve the Noble Peace Award.....
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
The world has just begun to know who he is. Why would anybody want to discredit him, if he were a star with so influential power?
So why are you so caught up in the US Healthcare reform, that has nothing to do with international relation?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
The thing with a generic word Peace than everyone has an opinion.
But all of you miss out one point isn't..........Did Obama wanted the Award? Did he consciously petition for that Award?
He already said he did not deserve the award....so what else is there to say? To date no elected leaders has not accepted the nomination. Should a leader of a country snub Oslo?
Oslo wanted to stick it to President Bush....But Oslo is also saying that it agreed with Obama administration of reducing unilateral policies but more diplomacy thru negotiation. Thereby, changing the tone in world tension particularly nuclear proliferation.
So if any of you cannot read simple interpretation of Oslo that’s too bad.
The criticism is that Obama has done nothing deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize and is directed at the Nobel Foundation.
Whether he wants it or made an attempt at it is not related to the argument at hand.
It should be given to people who geninuely made a contribution to Peace such as Ghandi and Mother Theresa, not given out as a tool to as you put it "stick it to President Bush".
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
So why are you so caught up in the US Healthcare reform, that has nothing to do with international relation?
not caught up, just watching, if he doesn't shine in his own land, how can there be light outside? -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Healthcare reform? Maybe by watching all the news and rightwing politics you think he got no support? perharps it is until now that you get to understanding the process of American politics to move agenda thru this of course it is a far cry from the PAP parliment. Because there are no debates. There are no people voice in Singapore!!!
Singaporean are not going anywhere if PAP are siting there without any opposition party to loud mouth...so just because you are blinded by censorship news. doesn;t mean that there are no voice.....perharps it is not in your TV remote control.
So until you have an idea how to move Singapore politics forward you are stuck with your own remote control.
Nuclear proliferation issued is a global issued. Why would Iran and NK only be a US interest? The US could simply sit back and let Israeli take care of the threat. Do you honestly think the Israeli will sit and wait if negociation are going no where?
On the other hand lets not turn the eyes away from others partners such as Russia and China who has great oil contract with Iran and its profit from US war.
The Chinese workers – several hundred technicians – are part of a multibillion-dollar Chinese investment in Afghanistan’s largest-ever infrastructure project, the Aynak copper mine.
America fights, China profits?
In making the case for converging U.S. and Chinese interests in Afghanistan, Robert Kaplan wrote last week in a New York Times opinion piece that, "The problem is that while America is sacrificing its blood and treasure, the Chinese will reap the benefits. The whole direction of America’s military and diplomatic effort is toward an exit strategy, whereas the CAmerica fights, China profits?To Assume that it is only Obama has the responsibilities to negociat iran nuclear weapon intention....maybe that is why he Deserve the Noble Peace Award.....
no people's voice in Singapore, or no voice that agree with you? you watch CNN or also CNA? you read LHZB or just New York Times? you subscribe YZZK or just economics? you think the rest who don't agree with you were born yesterday? if you choose to understand only what comes out of your finger on your remote control and the keyboard, your brain remains empty.
but what has the parliamentary process in Singapore got to do with Obama and the Nobel peace prize?
The israelis WILL NOT strike, using the US made warplanes and bombs, without a yes from the US. They did it on the Iraqi nuclear facilities. So Obama deserves the prize because he stops the israelis from striking the Iranian nuclear facilities?
If the US were not kicked out of Iran by ayatolah they would still be there profiting from the oil and gas resources, the US continue to stay in saudi arabia despite its violation of human rights, and you think European companies are not profiting from Iran and Iraq, ask TOTAL S A.
If the New York twin towers were not taken down, do you think the US would be fighting in afganistan? in fact, they were there supporting the taliban, and osama.
remember the american went to war in iraqi by telling lie to the UN, today the US remains the largest arms suppliers in the world. Dont take the morale high ground and put gold on your face about how great american is.
glad you agree or you now know that one american rambo cannot win a global war and you need the world, including China and Russia. When obama recognises the contribution of the rest of the world, including China and Russia, and work TOGETHER to rid the world of the threat for nuclear war, then he deserves the prize. In the mean time, if you think the people in singapore is afraid of the government, many americans parents are still praying that their kids would come home safely from schools everyday, for there may be shot by nut case GUN man lerking around, which happens every now and then.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
no people's voice in Singapore, or no voice that agree with you? you watch CNN or also CNA? you read LHZB or just New York Times? you subscribe YZZK or just economics? you think the rest who don't agree with you were born yesterday? if you choose to understand only what comes out of your finger on your remote control and the keyboard, your brain remains empty.
but what has the parliamentary process in Singapore got to do with Obama and the Nobel peace prize?
The israelis WILL NOT strike, using the US made warplanes and bombs, without a yes from the US. They did it on the Iraqi nuclear facilities. So Obama deserves the prize because he stops the israelis from striking the Iranian nuclear facilities?
If the US were not kicked out of Iran by ayatolah they would still be there profiting from the oil and gas resources, the US continue to stay in saudi arabia despite its violation of human rights, and you think European companies are not profiting from Iran and Iraq, ask TOTAL S A.
If the New York twin towers were not taken down, do you think the US would be fighting in afganistan? in fact, they were there supporting the taliban, and osama.
remember the american went to war in iraqi by telling lie to the UN, today the US remains the largest arms suppliers in the world. Dont take the morale high ground and put gold on your face about how great american is.
glad you agree or you now know that one american rambo cannot win a global war and you need the world, including China and Russia. When obama recognises the contribution of the rest of the world, including China and Russia, and work TOGETHER to rid the world of the threat for nuclear war, then he deserves the prize. In the mean time, if you think the people in singapore is afraid of the government, many americans parents are still praying that their kids would come home safely from schools everyday, for there may be shot by nut case GUN man lerking around, which happens every now and then.
Today he gets the Nobel Peace Prize and he will do the violent things tomorrow.
Just like today PAP announced budget donations, next year they up fares and taxes.