Why my votes matters - A dialogue with Minister Mentor
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Blue Dolphin,Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:I try to read all posts in this thread with an open mind. I sense that most want to see fireworks, regardless of the outcome. At any given day, I would have joined in and set some off myself. However, election is a serious matter.
Fireworks are good for any occasion, but they are not going to shoot down enemy bomber. The threat of sliding down a slippery slope is cliché but a very real one.
I have grown up. I can do what I want, when I like and how I like it. This is the freedom enjoyed by any Singaporean. Confuse it not with the responsibility in voting enjoin by all Singaporeans.
A good politician, to me, is one who can understand my problem, my anxiety and my needs. He is one who can lead me out of confusion, provide good and clear policies for me and my fellow countrymen. At the least, he is a role model for me and my children, at the next level, he leads a few thousand and at the ultimate, commands a few million.
Save a rare few, opposition partiesÂ’ candidates pop-up during election time with no track record. If we do not place our money to fund managers with poor track record, what is the logic for us to vote for candidates with iffy background and capability?
Incumbents have the upper hand and opposing candidates are underdogs. This is true everywhere. Cognisant of an unbalanced playing field, I am sure, is basic of any politician worth his salt. Extra effort is thus required of the underdogs. Which brings me to the question of what PAP underdogs in Hougang and Potong Pasir have done over the years and what Opposition partiesÂ’ underdogs have done in GRCs and single wards?
If and when I am called upon to vote, I will be looking for “politician of life” (if I may be allowed to paraphrase Minister Mentor Lee). I will be looking for a politician, with passion and conviction, who can organise all of us to battle for a better tomorrow.
[my section numbers mirror your paragraph order]
2) There is a saying, "don't cross your bridges before you come to them." How can you tell that the slope is slippery without having even looked at it yet? Politics is as fickle as the weather; nothing in the political realm remains constant over ANY period of time.
3) You generalize. ANd most unfortunately delude yourself, the way TooFree does. Firstly, even if what you say is accurate about yourself, I msut ask which class of society u come from: JC/Uni (under)graduate / poly / ITE/ heartlander? If you come from one of the first three, then take note that the rest of Singapore will have a very different life from you. And secondly, minusing the voting responsibility, which I interpret as allowing walkovers and GRCs, there arre still alot of things which Singaporeans can't do, unlike people in say Switzerland, whose Standard of Living we are supposed to be aiming at. We can't form indepdent trade unions (NTUC doesn't count), independent student unions. And even if we were to accept that these necessarily cause disorder (which is rather untrue in most cases excepting France and Taiwan), there are
still many more restrictions on freedom of speech and expression, and on Assembly. E.g Jehovah's Witnesses are banned, and so is the Unification Church and Falungong; There are many activities and even subjects schools restrict, even top schools like RI, the disabled arre not subsidised significantly by the government at all. And so on and so forth: just look at this forum, and you'll see how many things Singaporeans CANNOT do HOW they LIKE it. Think of how many Fandi Ahmads cannot attend the SPorts School, or how many local artistes cannot perform at the Esplanade, not to mention the law on chewing gum. Just investigate man...
4) One who COMMANDS millions is not necessarily one who UNDERSTANDS millions of individuals personally.
5) Chicken-and-egg qn. Your "fund managers" will never have a track record if they never get in. And anw, do the new PAP candidates have track records of their own (not borrowed from their predecessors)?
6) That is why many countries have election observers; and that is why the IOC is not made up of athletes.
7) Oh C'mon, do you and TooFree and all others like you know what "better future" you are hoping for? WHat do you ppl want to "battle for"? Don't just repeat MM's words, coem up with your own better slogans.
the (disenchanted) pikamaster (who shall be eligible to vote in 3 yrs time) -
Anyone talking about "Opposition members not of First World standard: MM" on today straits time. Like to hear your views. For me, I agree.
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Ok they are not first world standard. I'm more concern about should the oppositions build themselves to first world standard? Can opposition build to first world standard with so many limitations?Originally posted by king108:Anyone talking about "Opposition members not of First World standard: MM" on today straits time. Like to hear your views. For me, I agree. -
My belief is very simple "Cheap cannot be good, only expensive then can be good "..anyway..Originally posted by grandeur: It must be true rite. -
Cheap doesn't mean it is always bad, and expensive doesn't mean it is always good.Originally posted by king108:My belief is very simple "Cheap cannot be good, only expensive then can be good "..anyway.. It must be true rite. -
Sell it to singaporean lah...
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Originally posted by king108:Anyone talking about "Opposition members not of First World standard: MM" on today straits time. Like to hear your views. For me, I agree. We are Citzen of First World standard. Hooray Hooray..
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Hooray Hooray... with first world standard salaries for "able people"Originally posted by king108: We are Citzen of First World standard. Hooray Hooray.. -
how can they be first world standard when they cant offer million dollar salaries to attract potential candidates?Originally posted by king108:Anyone talking about "Opposition members not of First World standard: MM" on today straits time. Like to hear your views. For me, I agree. -
Not all the potiential candidates are attracted only by material gains.Originally posted by dragg:how can they be first world standard when they cant offer million dollar salaries to attract potential candidates?
Confucius said: The superior men understand righteousness. The petty men understand only gain. -
you believed in Gong Sze?? Changed surname...original surname Soo. "Gentleman do thing never change name, walk don't change surname"..Did he changed..Originally posted by grandeur:Not all the potiential candidates are attracted only by material gains.
Confucius said: The superior men understand righteousness. The petty men understand only gain. -
Maybe you can go find out....Originally posted by king108:you believed in Gong Sze?? Changed surname...original surname Soo. "Gentleman do thing never change name, walk don't change surname"..Did he changed.. -
Sorry for late reply. Got caught up with work.Originally posted by pikamaster:Blue Dolphin,
[my section numbers mirror your paragraph order]
2) There is a saying, "don't cross your bridges before you come to them." How can you tell that the slope is slippery without having even looked at it yet? Politics is as fickle as the weather; nothing in the political realm remains constant over ANY period of time.
3) You generalize. ANd most unfortunately delude yourself, the way TooFree does. Firstly, even if what you say is accurate about yourself, I msut ask which class of society u come from: JC/Uni (under)graduate / poly / ITE/ heartlander? If you come from one of the first three, then take note that the rest of Singapore will have a very different life from you. And secondly, minusing the voting responsibility, which I interpret as allowing walkovers and GRCs, there arre still alot of things which Singaporeans can't do, unlike people in say Switzerland, whose Standard of Living we are supposed to be aiming at. We can't form indepdent trade unions (NTUC doesn't count), independent student unions. And even if we were to accept that these necessarily cause disorder (which is rather untrue in most cases excepting France and Taiwan), there are
still many more restrictions on freedom of speech and expression, and on Assembly. E.g Jehovah's Witnesses are banned, and so is the Unification Church and Falungong; There are many activities and even subjects schools restrict, even top schools like RI, the disabled arre not subsidised significantly by the government at all. And so on and so forth: just look at this forum, and you'll see how many things Singaporeans CANNOT do HOW they LIKE it. Think of how many Fandi Ahmads cannot attend the SPorts School, or how many local artistes cannot perform at the Esplanade, not to mention the law on chewing gum. Just investigate man...
4) One who COMMANDS millions is not necessarily one who UNDERSTANDS millions of individuals personally.
5) Chicken-and-egg qn. Your "fund managers" will never have a track record if they never get in. And anw, do the new PAP candidates have track records of their own (not borrowed from their predecessors)?
6) That is why many countries have election observers; and that is why the IOC is not made up of athletes.
7) Oh C'mon, do you and TooFree and all others like you know what "better future" you are hoping for? WHat do you ppl want to "battle for"? Don't just repeat MM's words, coem up with your own better slogans.
the (disenchanted) pikamaster (who shall be eligible to vote in 3 yrs time)
I try to answer your reply one at a time and then give a general impression, ya?
2) Just for argument sake, how do we know taking drugs is harmful or taken to extreme, jumping off a moving train is dangerous? Anecdotal evidence? Test, trial and evaluation? Do we want to re-learn everything our predecessors paid for by their blood, sweat and time? Perhaps, if I you allow me, there are chemical processes that cannot be reversed, and I think governing is akin to those. If you allow me, I have headed projects and dealt with many groups of people, it is very very difficult to keep going and any lapse in concentration will surely fail the project.
3) Not sure if I read you correctly, but I sense you miss the point that I was trying to say that we should realise the importance of casting a vote.
4) I am certain, no one, historically or now, can understand a million people. I do not dare to claim that I undertand my close friends. So in that aspect, I agree with you.
5) I am of the opinion that if one is to lead, one must have leadership skills. Therefore, to want to lead, one must take on a learning role. Being a MP is not a place to learn to lead, it is a place to lead. Once, I saw a motto at my school gym, saying something like " you do not play to keep fit, you keep fit to play". Agree, ya?
6) I think the election process is clean and fair. What I actually like to know is these opposition candidates have done in the past 5 years (inbetween election) for the people Vs those PAP candidates in opposition wards. Interesting and fair comparison?
7) I suppose it is not fair to say that I copy MM slogan simply because I have written something close to what he have said or might have said. I also suppose that a better future is something different for everyone. What I am hopping for is a future that my children can live happily and be able to realise their potentials while I have the financial means to support them.
Generally, I have the impression that people are quite happy with their present state; and especially the younger population, have not been satisfied with their present state and want more. Allow me to shoot some fireworks, an artist cannot live by painting alone, he needs his basics. This is what I hope the election will show that we have not forgotten our basics and elect those that can deliver the basics and more. A pyramid is built from base up and never top down, it will topple even if supported with very strong hot air -
"Walkovers because we are strong: MM". I also fully agree with his statement. Especially when he mentioned about the oposition choosing constituency.
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It's about building a more equitable Singapore with democratic institutions that will function and stay strong despite changes in parties.
I want to see greater political participation at all levels, and independant civil society groups forming to provide platforms for ordinary citizens to lobby and feedback / pressure the government to deliver and improve. -
Originally posted by king108:"Walkovers because we are strong: MM". I also fully agree with his statement. Especially when he mentioned about the oposition choosing constituency. I am not belittling the oppositions when MM expressed these (allowed me to quote)
"How can this be? When the opposition picks a constituency, whether a single or a GRC, they choose the constituency where the PAP is weakest, where they think they have chance of winning. They avoid constituencies they know they will lose."
Don't you realised that the opposition is learnting from MM to fight to win by selecting weakest GRC and or single constituency.. "Damed cunning opposition" -
"Damed cunning opposition"Originally posted by king108: I am not belittling the oppositions when MM expressed these (allowed me to quote)
"How can this be? When the opposition picks a constituency, whether a single or a GRC, they choose the constituency where the PAP is weakest, where they think they have chance of winning. They avoid constituencies they know they will lose."
Don't you realised that the opposition is learnting from MM to fight to win by selecting weakest GRC and or single constituency.. "Damed cunning opposition" [/b][/quote] I think they are all stupid..since they have to prepare their final outcome before they enter..
So R all the PAP ready to fight to death too? Most opposition have this in mind when they enter the arena..those PAP novices have the option to quit..anytime, many did ..so U ask why..they go in for waht?
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MM doesn't have the right to criticise the opposition for being weak, given that he himself destroyed many of the best fighters the opposition has had to offer.Originally posted by king108:"Walkovers because we are strong: MM". I also fully agree with his statement. Especially when he mentioned about the oposition choosing constituency.
PAP itself is not first world, so it has no right to criticise anybody for not being first world. his logic for saying PAP is first world, is because of accolades granted by world bodies. looking at those rankings, hong kong and taiwan are also around where we are. so colonial masters can be considered first world govt? members of parliament fighting each other on national TV also first world? clearly the logic is damn stupid and meaningless.
the MM is strong no doubt, but the 5 other candidates piggy backing on him are not. so the mandate only goes to him and 1 out of 6 is definitely not a mandate. -
hi snow leopard,Originally posted by snow leopard:MM doesn't have the right to criticise the opposition for being weak, given that he himself destroyed many of the best fighters the opposition has had to offer.
I wonder if the new generation know about several strong oppositions
we had seen in the past.
All/most of whom had been put made bankrupt by MM Lee.
(And we know who owns the law system here)
The reason for all the fears we all know.
resulting in many potential candidates to not standout or join the opposition
for so many years. -
MM Lee is still on track and determined to hunt opposition.. esp. giving the stick to Chee & company during his bit on this dirty scare tactics for election 2006!Originally posted by NuLife:hi snow leopard,
I wonder if the new generation know about several strong oppositions
we had seen in the past.
All/most of whom had been put made bankrupt by MM Lee.
(And we know who owns the law system here)
The reason for all the fears we all know.
resulting in many potential candidates to not standout or join the opposition
for so many years.
http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Current_events