Why my votes matters - A dialogue with Minister Mentor
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Snow Leopard, Li Ao don't really hurts me with his remarks because I know our peoples is not stupid at all, his hidden agenda is directing to our peoples for unable to stop the ruling party in perpetuating governance.Originally posted by snow leopard:you are absolutely right about examples of change in leadership without a collapse of the economy in mature economies. however, we have many aunties and ah so's and even young chaps working directly or indirectly for the govt would also vote for the PAP for the sake of their own rice bowls. so on the contrary, i think this is will be a watershed year where the PAP makes a clean sweep.
Infact most of our peoples just care for their own living and does not bother what do politicians can effect our living, they're not realising the situations is now like "boiling frogs with cold water!" till it's too late to leap away !
One of my Thai supplier make a remark about our peoples really did hurting me deeply enough with tearing eyes.
He said that "Singaporeans is like Sugar Canes", never be planted together always apart with each other, easily chop down one by one, easily be squeezing juices -
Has it occured to anyone that all of a sudden we have Mr. LKY on television taking on questions from journalist in a 'no holds barred debate'. i dont recall him or any of his Ministers taking on questions on a weekly basis from members of the public in front of cameras before. In other words we pay Mr LKY more than a million dollars a year to help market the PAP and its policies, during elections time. I guess the leadership knows that there are many burning questions among singapreans that have been swept under the carpet. LKY has lost touch with the generation for sure based on his answers. He keeps playing the violin that Singapore will sink without the Lee family or the PAP in power.
At the moment I cant help laughing to see how on the nightly news we have Ministers walking around and cameras pointing at all their silly littles moves, smiles and rubbing shoulders with the Uncles and Aunties. Its so hypocritical.
Someone should have asked Mr. LKY directly how does it justify having all the juicy appointments in the cabinet controlled by his family members?? Is he saying that there is nobody else in Singapore intelligent enough to run Temasek, The Ministry of Finance, GIC chairmanships, Singtel etc.?
i bet you the elections will be held immediately in the days after the cash is handed out on the Progress Package on May 1.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Despite my unhappiness with the ruling party, I can tell you that the above does NOT happen. Your friends are scaring themselves. And the party benefits from this fear.
Reading all your threads was addictive! It just sprung to mind one thought - "Who do the civil servants vote for?"
I spoke to this SAF regular friend a few weeks back. He stays in Hougang and I asked him who he would vote for. His instinctive reply was PAP, "otherwise he would be traced and penalised" (in other words, no renewal of 2nd contract).
I met up with another SAF regular friend just last week and he also gave the same reply. So from then on, I figured that it's the same for every other govt linked organisation or stat board.
[b]Any one any comments?[/b] -
We should get Tim Sebastion from BBC to intervew LKY and LHL. Saw him interview Goh Chok Tong on BBC Hardtalk, he really never give face man, whack GCT jia lat jia lat.
Link: http://www.singapore-window.org/sw03/030923bc.htm -
problem is, people by and large do not think that the PAP would ever degenerate into such a state. all these years they've upheld their claim to be corruption free and on rare occasions where such cases were found out, the perpetrators were severely dealth with, which satisfies the people.Originally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:Taiwaness Li Ao said we're stupid and Genes is Bad !
I'm starting to feel that accusation of "the genes of our peoples are bad" is somthing which I can't defence, because our peoples does not reject unreasonable and true peoples liberty govarnance of the ruling party just for the sake of their own "rice bowl"
If this will to continue, what will be more serious then loosing rice bowl then having another Marcos, Suharto or worst still Saddam Hussien ?
What don't these group of peoples not to be selfish and think carefully for the sake of the Nation and many generations of Singapore to live on ?
you see, Mr Lee knows exactly what the people wants - no corruption, food on the table, peace. he delivers on all three, people feel satisfied. even the very people you see on TV agitated over democratic ideals also admitted (in the newspaper reports the day after), that they really want the PAP still.
to appeal to our electorates, we need to appeal to the very same senses that the PAP are appealing to. we need to highlight to them that even though there is food on our tables, it is not given to us. we have to slave for our food and in the case of our roof, slave for our entire lives ...
we need to make them understand, that whichever govt is in power, as exemplifed by Japan, Taiwan, even Hong Kong, there will be food on the table because food is really what we can do with our own hands and invent with our minds.
the PAP's mandate allows it to run the country as though it owns it, controlling the economy, monopolising businesses, forcing everyone to work, directly or indirectly for itself and thus turning us into virtual slaves ... -
i was thinking along your lines. i was deliberating between whether to interpret it as it is (an insult) or to read his underlying message. i chose to read it as it is ...Originally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:Snow Leopard, Li Ao don't really hurts me with his remarks because I know our peoples is not stupid at all, his hidden agenda is directing to our peoples for unable to stop the ruling party in perpetuating governance.
Infact most of our peoples just care for their own living and does not bother what do politicians can effect our living, they're not realising the situations is now like "boiling frogs with cold water!" till it's too late to leap away !
One of my Thai supplier make a remark about our peoples really did hurting me deeply enough with tearing eyes.
He said that "Singaporeans is like Sugar Canes", never be planted together always apart with each other, easily chop down one by one, easily be squeezing juices
my interpretation of his underlying message - if ever there is one, is this:
LKY and his son are smart because they could rule over their people like emperors. Sun Yan Zi is smart because she stepped out of the country and gained the wings to fly above the limitations imposed by the emperors ...
anyway, we'd await his clarifications ... -
These are just reflex answers. and if these are the 'best' we can get, downfall is imminent. Just hate it when some must hang on so long...till kingdom cum? Time's up for past legacy to dictate the future. Its no longer about the commies and cold war. Authoritarian management will not solve the complex problems of globalization, terrorism, rich/poor class etc. and 800 bucks certainly won't shut people's mouth for good. Well, doesn't matter if the opposition are not 'up to the mark'; but the relish of a good (bad) choice one can make rather than no choice!
Originally posted by dariusmean:
What an interesting exchange indeed. The journalists fielded some quality questions.
But of course, like most shows on local politics, we never really got the answers to the questions, did we? There was talk about the past and the success and the past and the success and the pastÂ…. (did anyone count the number of times 1950s was mentioned when a question about [b]current politics was posed?). Instead, we took away some interesting insights
Question: Mr Lee, people are afraid of voting against the PAP, soÂ…..
MM Lee: (interrupting) Are you afraid to vote against the PAP?
Darius: No lah, why would I be afraid? After all, if I do not vote for the PAP, my estate will not be upgraded. My Town Council will be last in queue for the funds and like Potong PasirÂ’s residents; IÂ’ll just wait for more than a decade for any housing upgrading. Aiyah, nothing much what.
MM Lee: Do you think that my son needs me to tell him what to do? Do I need to whisper in his ear and tell him how to answer? (Reads: I am not pulling the strings from behind)
Darius: Oh yeah? I guess someone else said this like 15 mins ago huh? “There are things that I can do, and the Prime Minister and Senior Minister know it, that NO ONE else can do. They all know that.”
Question: Why do we need GRCs around?
MM Lee: Because there are innate, visceral biases those are natural...... Because when you run out of curry, you go next door.
Darius: Eh hellow, you forgot that Chinese voters voted for JBJ when he won Anson? And Anson wasnÂ’t exactly your upp-tty class estate to begin with. Heartlanders voted for an Indian. Oh waitÂ…Â… didnÂ’t Rajaratnam also get voted in so many times before the GRC came into place? Or was that because he spoke Hokkien??? HummmphhhÂ….
Question: If voter turnout was 30%, would you see that as people being a political?
MM Lee: No I would see that to mean that people are satisfied and happy with their lives.
Darius: Wait a secÂ…Â…. Apolitical = Happy & satisfied people?
Question: So if only 30% voted, would you still see that as a mandate?
MM Lee: Yes of course I would see it as a mandate.
Darius: Heya Big Daddy, 30% of the people voted and you got in because they love you – Wow, that’s POPULAR MANDATE indeed. You legitimate son.
Question: Mr Lee there isnÂ’t an equal playing field for the opposition, so how canÂ….
MM Lee: (interrupting) Does any government help the opposition to install itself? No!
Darius: Uh-oh, so there is an Unequal playing fieldÂ…..
Question: Taking the scenario that only 30% have voted, what if there is no one voting, would there still be a mandate
MM Lee: Yes! I remind you, that I have not been contested for 3 elections. That is because the opposition know that they cannot displace me.
Darius: You know what is scenario or not? Scenario got you meh?
Well folks, we sure did get our answers [/b] -
From :938Live.sg
PAP on what would make a good poll result
PAP Chairman Lim Boon Heng has given the clearest indication of what the party would consider a good result in the coming general election.
He said a win of 83 out of the 84 seats would be a very good result.
Mr Lim added there seems to be a reluctance on the part of the opposition parties to engage the PAP.
Speaking during a visit to Jurong East, he added the opposition had not taken advantage of the time given to them to put across their viewpoints.
Mr Lim said one reason could be, the opposition lacks issues to be brought up.
His comment comes just a day before PAP is set to release its manifesto.
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Khaw: Political excitement ok, but no jokes please
By Karen Teng
Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan says political excitement is welcome in Singapore but the election process should not be taken lightly.
The minister points out that the upcoming General Election should be about choosing credible and capable leaders for Singapore.
Mr Khaw says he understands younger Singaporeans' yearning for political excitement.
But he puts his foot down and says Singapore's leaders can't be made the brunt of jokes.
The minister cited the case of Taiwan where its leaders are ridiculed and laughed at on late night TV shows.
People want excitement. That's okay, entertainment value and so on, it's a young generation they want issues to be connected. So as outsiders you look at it and laugh, its entertainment value. But the moment Singaporeans start making jokes, things which are not true about MM, PM Lee or about myself are you sure you are doing something right?
Mr Khaw says politicians who're honest and serious about their responsibilities, should be treated with respect and not ridicule.
Yes once in a while you want some excitement but at the end of the day you have to go back to how do bring food to the table, do my kids continue to remain uneducated? Then how do you fight the competition? In a modern world today if you have uneducated and low skills, then how do you compete? There're hundreds and millions of such people in China and India waiting to come up.
Mr Khaw says ensuring Singapore's continued prosperity should be a joint effort between the government and the people.
He likened the cooperation to the way everyone here worked together to battle SARS. -
(as posted in reply to Lai CF at www.findsingapore.net/forum on 14.4.2006)
This is as to be expected. Everything GCT has done was to follow MM Lee wishes. GCT's opening up and relaxation of some of the past controls was a moderation of some sort that saved MM Lee from his heaviest criticism of his iron rule for some years. The warming of seat by GCT has resuscitated MM Lee who now sort recovered and now made a real comeback.
Therefore as to be expected, every move to open up will be temporary and for show. From Feedback Unit to TV dialogue with Ministers and MM Lee all are not real but are part of the control freak and are stage-managed. If you read our past posts to Feedback Unit, sufficient complaints with facts and arguments have been presented to the ministers and yet after a few years nothing much has changed.
The common saying is the leopard never changes its spots so after his resuscitation by GCT intervening seat warming stand-in the real MM Lee comes back in the same way and utter the same old past policies without change. Whatever GCT has done is now being reversed and folded back and controls are now increased.
His mind seems to work like this : "I am legitimately elected being through political baptism of fire and no one has the right to talk equal with me". "The newspapers cannot set agenda". "I will debunk anyone for disagreeing with what I am doing"
This is the concepts of his government. So no matter what people have said or suggested and whatever problems have been fed back he will not admit them as problems and he would explain them away until and unless bigger forces from outside stop him like the Souzhou or PSA/SIA got internationally exposed as stupid acts of inefficiencies and cut too deep into his scheme of desisting argumentations.
Even the MPs have no right to question his IR decision for he himself wants to decide. His strong rhetoric not to grant level playing field stems from the same legalistic mindset that as founding father and elected leader he is going to create unlevel to stay in control and no body will have the standis to question his doing and arrogance because people cannot do anything as he was elected and nothing can change that fact.
His conceptualisation is based on power that he has received and he intends to use that power legalistically to the fullest and charging all fees and HDB prices to the fullest market prices even if there are some flaws here and there. His view that GRC is good to perpetuate control has given him much pleasure as he has the whole electorate under his mercy and no body can change that.
Under such circumstance, the citizens are totally cornered and controlled and no one can save the situation. He will put increase his own or ministers' salaries as he likes, he would put Singaporeans monies in any foreign or Shin Corp investments he likes, because to him he is popularly elected even under GRC walkover. Such legalistic power play is unique in modern history as it is totally unaccountable to parliament and the electorate. He could even revoke citizenships or change the voting system to one-man-two-votes for his preferred citizen groups if he likes. GRC is considered a concession to date. He could always do more than GRCs may be by declaring the country as a Temasek Republic. The blog and internet is giving too much views to be of help so one day Sedition may be redefined so as to stop people from being too free with their views.
Right or wrong, accountable or not is not important as there is nothing anyone can do to stop him from what he is doing. The journalists do not understand his control-oriented mind and always seems to ask unnecessary questions which do not worry him at all as he will reply that "if you are not happy, you can displace me if you like" This may be called legalistic hitlerism in my other post. -
Court action aganst NKF if wrongdoings confirmed
By Karen Teng
Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan has reiterated his stand that if there's evidence of criminal wrongdoings with the old NKF board, the authorities will take action.
He assured Singaporeans that the law will run its course once investigators complete their work.
On reports that the new NKF board may be taking civil action against its old management, Mr Khaw says he welcomes the move.
Beyond that NKF itself if they are exploring legal avenue and if they think they have a case to pursue civil action, I am sure they will do. And I welcome they do so because I think this is what people are looking foward to because all the wrongdoings are now exposed in the KPMG report.
The minister was unfazed that Oppostion parties would focus on the NKF controversy in the upcoming election.
I suppose they run out of issues because what else to talk about. NKF because it worked up the whole population. I was worked up myself, everybody is worked up, so quite naturally they want to see a conclusion to all this one way or the other. But you can't rush this sort of things so the public prosecutor will have to do his duties thoroughly.
Mr Khaw was speaking to the media after a walkabout at Admiralty in Woodlands this morning.
He was accompanied by two new PAP candidates, eye surgeon Lim Wee Kiak and lawyer Ellen Lee. -
Transparent in government like they urged for more transparency in charity bodies in Singapore.
For example transparency of the MPs and the PM's pays should disclose to the public for check.....
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judging from what is said from the estate upgrade issues
question to MM Lee : is it because potong pasir is opposition held so they are not singaporeans?
so meaning
pap = singapore
opposition = not singapore
and since we are in singapore, PAP will serve those under its wings. but does it mean they have the mandate? if they truly have the mandate, why are there still people who refuse to join them? it is not as if we have divided loyalties in a small country.
i wonder if one opposition holds half of singapore, while pap holds the other half. who will be the government of singapore? would we become like ireland? where the protestants and the catholics are against each other? would our small nation become a romance of the 2 parties? -
WE treated MM Lee with respect .. and he treat like that? I really think he is getting far older than we thought..Originally posted by bladez87:judging from what is said from the estate upgrade issues
question to MM Lee : is it because potong pasir is opposition held so they are not singaporeans?
so meaning
pap = singapore
opposition = not singapore
and since we are in singapore, PAP will serve those under its wings. but does it mean they have the mandate? if they truly have the mandate, why are there still people who refuse to join them? it is not as if we have divided loyalties in a small country.
i wonder if one opposition holds half of singapore, while pap holds the other half. who will be the government of singapore? would we become like ireland? where the protestants and the catholics are against each other? would our small nation become a romance of the 2 parties? -
The Proverbs and Saying is always worth learning.Originally posted by norey:WE treated MM Lee with respect .. and he treat like that? I really think he is getting far older than we thought..
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Why keep a dog and bark yourself ? -
People who are under oppositions should also be considered as singaporean. Even if opposition won the election they should be given equal access to the government fund like the PAP for upgrading.Originally posted by bladez87:judging from what is said from the estate upgrade issues
question to MM Lee : is it because potong pasir is opposition held so they are not singaporeans?
so meaning
pap = singapore
opposition = not singapore
After all these people pay taxes, serve national service and they are holding the same citizenship as the rest of Singaporean. -
Originally posted by LinYu:
for NKF issue, i have always been amazed by this issue! Because each of us would have declared taxes to IRAS and charities organization will also need to do that. Why will such happen to Durai TT? I feel he is just a scapegoat.
[b]Court action aganst NKF if wrongdoings confirmed
By Karen Teng
Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan has reiterated his stand that if there's evidence of criminal wrongdoings with the old NKF board, the authorities will take action.
He assured Singaporeans that the law will run its course once investigators complete their work.
On reports that the new NKF board may be taking civil action against its old management, Mr Khaw says he welcomes the move.
Beyond that NKF itself if they are exploring legal avenue and if they think they have a case to pursue civil action, I am sure they will do. And I welcome they do so because I think this is what people are looking foward to because all the wrongdoings are now exposed in the KPMG report.
The minister was unfazed that Oppostion parties would focus on the NKF controversy in the upcoming election.
I suppose they run out of issues because what else to talk about. NKF because it worked up the whole population. I was worked up myself, everybody is worked up, so quite naturally they want to see a conclusion to all this one way or the other. But you can't rush this sort of things so the public prosecutor will have to do his duties thoroughly.
Mr Khaw was speaking to the media after a walkabout at Admiralty in Woodlands this morning.
He was accompanied by two new PAP candidates, eye surgeon Lim Wee Kiak and lawyer Ellen Lee.
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if he had not been having a strong backing. I bet he wont take a risk to do that. -
i disagree with MM's diaglogue where only his supporters gets upgrading.Originally posted by grandeur:People who are under oppositions should also be considered as singaporean. Even if opposition won the election they should be given equal access to the government fund like the PAP for upgrading.
After all these people pay taxes, serve national service and they are holding the same citizenship as the rest of Singaporean.
Dont forget with opposition it makes a country better. -
Strong backing or not, Ministry of Health must have the ability and competency to oversee NFK under the rules governing charity. To that extent Minister Khaw has to take responsibiliy if not for himself for the predecessor minister. If predecessor minister did not wish to comment, he should be pointed out to the public as the minister who has caused the problem or resign for the sake of rule of law accountability and transparency.Originally posted by antoh:for NKF issue, i have always been amazed by this issue! Because each of us would have declared taxes to IRAS and charities organization will also need to do that. Why will such happen to Durai TT? I feel he is just a scapegoat.
if he had not been having a strong backing. I bet he wont take a risk to do that.
The way Temasek is being run is also quite unaccountable and not transparent. People have sent in petition but there is no reply. MM Lee has not solved many problems but still want to give the impression every aspect of running the country is in good order or good hand. This rhetorical approach is not very competitive or creative for new-age Singapore now. -
There are no full replacement by the opposition to take over PAP's ground as MM claimed that because of their inabilities to built a stronger and a larger parties. This is the reason for more election walk over for many parts of Singapore.
This makes me think that Singapore ought to built up a stronger opposition to balance up the politics. In order to built up a stronger and larger oppositions, the oppositions should fight for equal access of being funded by the government. With more fund parties can get more talent and improve the party's abilities. -
In country with real democracy such as Japan and Korea, the Minister will immediately resign for not being incompetent and beg the peoples forgiveness.Originally posted by robertteh:Strong backing or not, Ministry of Health must have the ability and competency to oversee NFK under the rules governing charity. To that extent Minister Khaw has to take responsibiliy if not for himself for the predecessor minister. If predecessor minister did not wish to comment, he should be pointed out to the public as the minister who has caused the problem or resign for the sake of rule of law accountability and transparency.
The way Temasek is being run is also quite unaccountable and not transparent. People have sent in petition but there is no reply. MM Lee has not solved many problems but still want to give the impression every aspect of running the country is in good order or good hand. This rhetorical approach is not very competitive or creative for new-age Singapore now.
Look how arrogant our Ministers talking about the NKF SAGA, he is issuing warnings and mixed it with political debates. -
but also thinking about the Oppostions. is there any good candidates there to fight with the exisiting ruling party.
this is a very good chance.
the PAP candidates are new.
otherwise the Oppositions will need to wait for another 15 - 30 yrs. -
do you think will there be another susan long to find out about what government's secret? like TT durai
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Problem is, they will mostly be sheltered by some powerful minister in a GRC and thus the opposition will not get a fair fight...Originally posted by antoh:but also thinking about the Oppostions. is there any good candidates there to fight with the exisiting ruling party.
this is a very good chance.
the PAP candidates are new.
otherwise the Oppositions will need to wait for another 15 - 30 yrs. -
see how it goes