Why my votes matters - A dialogue with Minister Mentor
-
I agree. MM Lee has made it very clear that there is no such thing as level playing field. So people have been wasting time for years to reason and reason with a mind that has long decided not to listen or level the playing field for the good of the country.Originally posted by Ecxentrique:i think lets face it.. no one in PAP or any single party govt is going to make concessions by making level playing field for the opposition..
i think all the more it falls on us, the voters, to make that field more equal.
It is useless to reason with someone who only wants to control and control and never give up right or wrong, in the interest of people or not.
What these young journalists said to me make sense but although they are right and their views are in the interest of all citizens and Singapore will progress with changes made to past control-based system, they have no way to argue with someone who will keep denying their good views with "take me in election if you can", "beat me in my GRC if you can", as there will be no level playing field to anyone as long as he is in charge.
Journalists are right in saying that PAP needs not be paranoid about enlarging GRCs or have more control over the blogs or internet but MM Lee just dismissed their points preferring to laugh it off. His reason to set up the GRC to provide for seats for the minority or enlarge it to test the capability of opposition does not hold water. He did not appear to be able to bear scrutiny by the journalist on his GRC rationale. This is blatantly untrue there must be GRC to ensure minority will be represented as there are many other more acceptable ways for fair representations even better than NMP schemes. Proportional representation can be introduced to grant minority candidate receiving the highest votes to come in without cornering the whole election system to serve the ruling party's control of the whole election process.
MM Lee has considered everything on his party and his own interest and not the overall interests of citizens or a more level playing field - as simple as that.
It looks like there is no point having debates or rationale discussions with MM Lee for he had made up his mind he would not accept good views or proactive views to solve our current problems.
He is only concerned with winning the cornered elections. He is going to win and win and win and he knows that no body is going to stop him from practising the GRC grip on the electorate.
In Singapore, politics is not about right any more but about who is in control of the electorate and election process legally and legalistically done to outsmart all.
To the journalise I will say this: there is no point trying to put up any views or suggestions on how to improve or upgrade the country. Nothing is going to change as long as MM Lee is of this frame of mind - take me on if you can. -
They should have replied him back, "Just because I refused to eat my meals doesn't mean I'm full'.Originally posted by LinYu:Q: with the walkover, how can PAP tell that they have the mandate?
MM: the very fact that there is no challenge is the strong mandate -
If Ho Ching is not married to LHL and call LKY "dad", who is the lady in Singapore ?Originally posted by Ecxentrique:i would think that there would have been some OB markers that has been set and also referring to all the case histories of people accusing him of nepotism and their eventual conseuquences.. libel yadda yadda.. and he also emphasized the point that he was trained as a lawyer.. so that's like saying:"u better watch what u say.. or i can have u sued.."
the early example was hw he flexed his "muscle" against the guy who said pple being fearful to vote against PAP..
Can anybody out there tell me ? Please.................. -
Just Mrs LHL..!
A better question would be:
Who is the guy who could BEAT LKY anytime except he was put in jail for most of his active political life?
answer see:http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=183403 -
LKY talking about level field ?Originally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:If Ho Ching is not married to LHL and call LKY "dad", who is the lady in Singapore ?
Can anybody out there tell me ? Please..................
SELF-PERPETUATING GOVERNANCE is the name of his game ! -
Originally posted by norey:
Norey, I mean if Ho Ching married me
Just Mrs LHL..!
A better question would be:
[b]Who is the guy who could LKY anytime except he was put in jail for most of his active political life?
answer see:http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=183403[/b]
Can she become Temasek Chairman ? -
no! just mrs sg,laubaixingOriginally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:Norey, I mean if Ho Ching married me Can she become Temasek Chairman ?
-
Tolong.....Tolong....Originally posted by LinYu:no! just mrs sg,laubaixing
I rather be a good Boy Scout and hold my stick in my palm forever ! -
right on..hehehehehehe!
-
i think we got to be careful in what we post here...
cos u never know who is watching this forum..
remember.. there are somethings that i can do that SM, PM and others cannot do...
-
LKY told all Singaporeans and the world that his govt. will never offer level field to Opposition, I think he had left out another issues, that is many of his family members had took up super post's in Singapore.Originally posted by goaler:i think we got to be careful in what we post here...
cos u never know who is watching this forum..
remember.. there are somethings that i can do that SM, PM and others cannot do...
Where is his level playing field for other Singaporeans ?
What to worry about ? The real facts is there for you and me to witness. -
i think so too. the idea at the end of the day is to win. but Mr Chiam and Mr Low are no stupid fellows too. they said wait till Potong Pasir or Hougang become a part of GRC then say ...Originally posted by NewAge:However he might have an ulterior motive by suggesting that. By making the opposition stand for GRC the tendency of opposition land falingl is very high. -
come to think of it, he has a point. nobody contests Tanjong Pagar because they know they're going to lose. in other words, if voting were to take place, the votes will surely go to Mr Lee himself.Originally posted by LinYu:Q: with the walkover, how can PAP tell that they have the mandate?
MM: the very fact that there is no challenge is the strong mandate
on the other hand, back to the same GRC issue, the vote is for him and him alone, not the other five MPs who are piggy backing on him ... so if it's just votes for him, his son, the ex PM and a few heavy weight ministers, that hardly counts as a mandate ... if he really wants to know whether or not he has the mandate, break up the GRCs into individual constituencies and we shall see. -
you are absolutely right about examples of change in leadership without a collapse of the economy in mature economies. however, we have many aunties and ah so's and even young chaps working directly or indirectly for the govt would also vote for the PAP for the sake of their own rice bowls. so on the contrary, i think this is will be a watershed year where the PAP makes a clean sweep.Originally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:LKY keep repeating his famous same old scare tactics, Singaporeans Lives will be difficult and National Reserves will be finish.
I think only the Aunties and Ah So's will buy his threat's.
How come nobody ask him about politics in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong & Taiwan leadership renewal without LKY & PAP ?
Did their country and economy went down so badly after changing leaders ?
I'm confident this 2006 GE, the PAP will loose 2 GRC's beside Potong Pasir / Hougang to Oppositions because I can read both Father and Son is showing some signs of worries. -
yes, yes, they've got fire in their bellies and i have a bad feeling about what's going to happen to that chap who got a yellow card from the MM ...Originally posted by countdracula:the group of youngsters are much better than the usual rigged interviews...now we know who's never going to be an editor with the straits times....
some earlier questions did stump lky, some replies were lame while those he couldn't get away, he tried to do technicals like how many? you spoke to all? and scare tactics. when asked why need 5 or 6 man grc, i didn't understand what he was mumbling about populations shifts...shift so what, you can still have 3 man grc....
at the end, the programme tried to show the softer side of things...typical..
given the aggression level, i think that's why no other pap folks dared to come out and face the real singaporeans.. -
I think for Singapore opposition parties to make some gain in this coming GE is by fielding only candidates at slightly more than 1/3 of the 84 constituencies. I think this is a better strategy because.
1. PAP will likely to win and return to power with a majority.
2. If PAP get a walkover of slightly more than half of the 84 seats then they already can form a government. Then the people would not need to worry about PAP not returning to power but focus more on voting in a stronger opposition.
With this strategy the opposition can consolidate their strenght and get the people to understand the need for a better opposition representation in the parliment and the danger of have just one party system. -
Originally posted by snow leopard:
They must respected MM Lee for his contribution. Besides that he is already 80+, it will be inhuman of the opposition to contest with him. That will distrub his healthy living and early night off. Rallies and walk about is very tiring things to do although only every five years once. Besides that sometime may caught sickness while shaking unknown hands which is dangerous. We can't affort to lose such leader in singapore. At 80+, he is still serving singapore. I doubted we can find the second one in these World. -
i disagree... i feel for them to truly gain some ground.. they should gun for as many as they can and make pple aware of their presence although i truly hope they can field candidates that do not turn away voters..Originally posted by judge&jury:I think for Singapore opposition parties to make some gain in this coming GE is by fielding only candidates at slightly more than 1/3 of the 84 constituencies. I think this is a better strategy because.
1. PAP will likely to win and return to power with a majority.
2. If PAP get a walkover of slightly more than half of the 84 seats then they already can form a government. Then the people would not need to worry about PAP not returning to power but focus more on voting in a stronger opposition.
With this strategy the opposition can consolidate their strenght and get the people to understand the need for a better opposition representation in the parliment and the danger of have just one party system.
also having contests at more loctions will also allow local and foreign observers to truly see how much mandate the ruling party can get.. only then you won't get remarks like its a walkover so we have the people's mandate.. -
Hmmm....... I think this interaction with the LKY thingy just shows one thing, the alternative medias and more liberal, independent thinking youngsters are becoming more of a threat to the incubent. This reminds me of PRC some time ago, had something similar, in which Wen Jia Bao met Chinese commoners from all walkers of life, on their national TV. I think all this is to create an overall impression that the govt is opening up, and more willingly to accept ideas. But serious, I think this also reveals PAP's fear that the more educated ppls might stop supporting them.
-
equlus wrote:Hmmm....... .
I think this interaction with the LKY thingy just shows one thing, the alternative medias and more liberal, independent thinking youngsters are becoming more of a threat to the incumbent. This reminds me of PRC some time ago, had something similar, in which Wen Jia Bao met Chinese commoners from all walkers of life, on their national TV. I think all this is to create an overall impression that the govt is opening up, and more willingly to accept ideas. But serious, I think this also reveals PAP's fear that the more educated ppls might stop supporting them
This is a very important observation..the PAP cannot put 10 per cent of the people in jail for such remarks like when they did in 1963 during operation cold store..
So they changed tactics..dealing directly wi the young voters confronting them and their arguments in the media etc..
I have never seem leopards changing theor spots. . they still are by nature "ruthless" and with one pointed purpose "defeating all opposition'" by any and all means.
It 's call the ends justifying the means!
Goto read :http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Political_white_lie -
All the sudden influx of people into this forum...Originally posted by judge&jury:I think for Singapore opposition parties to make some gain in this coming GE is by fielding only candidates at slightly more than 1/3 of the 84 constituencies. I think this is a better strategy because.
1. PAP will likely to win and return to power with a majority.
2. If PAP get a walkover of slightly more than half of the 84 seats then they already can form a government. Then the people would not need to worry about PAP not returning to power but focus more on voting in a stronger opposition.
With this strategy the opposition can consolidate their strenght and get the people to understand the need for a better opposition representation in the parliment and the danger of have just one party system.
-
just too bad. Society is different, the populace is different.They want something else other than the 70s and 80s brand of leadership.Originally posted by equlus84:Hmmm....... I think this interaction with the LKY thingy just shows one thing, the alternative medias and more liberal, independent thinking youngsters are becoming more of a threat to the incubent. This reminds me of PRC some time ago, had something similar, in which Wen Jia Bao met Chinese commoners from all walkers of life, on their national TV. I think all this is to create an overall impression that the govt is opening up, and more willingly to accept ideas. But serious, I think this also reveals PAP's fear that the more educated ppls might stop supporting them.
The vibe is that the young want their voices to be heard, and not co-opted.A means A, and B means B.I don't think they will particularly care for cult of personalities anymore..
Evolution in our political landscape?Perhaps.Timely too.We need all the talents and blunt opinions we can find to push this country forward, and if the current brand is old and worn-out, by all means, change it.
Big deal.. -
I dunno if he is still being paid but if he is then he is not serving the nation, but is an unwanted leech. This old man has, imo, overstayed his welcome.Originally posted by king108: They must respected MM Lee for his contribution. Besides that he is already 80+, it will be inhuman of the opposition to contest with him. That will distrub his healthy living and early night off. Rallies and walk about is very tiring things to do although only every five years once. Besides that sometime may caught sickness while shaking unknown hands which is dangerous. We can't affort to lose such leader in singapore. At 80+, he is still serving singapore. I doubted we can find the second one in these World. -
Taiwaness Li Ao said we're stupid and Genes is Bad !Originally posted by snow leopard:you are absolutely right about examples of change in leadership without a collapse of the economy in mature economies. however, we have many aunties and ah so's and even young chaps working directly or indirectly for the govt would also vote for the PAP for the sake of their own rice bowls. so on the contrary, i think this is will be a watershed year where the PAP makes a clean sweep.
I'm starting to feel that accusation of "the genes of our peoples are bad" is somthing which I can't defence, because our peoples does not reject unreasonable and true peoples liberty govarnance of the ruling party just for the sake of their own "rice bowl"
If this will to continue, what will be more serious then loosing rice bowl then having another Marcos, Suharto or worst still Saddam Hussien ?
What don't these group of peoples not to be selfish and think carefully for the sake of the Nation and many generations of Singapore to live on ? -
frankly, the trailers showed lau lee in very bad light, and those who were there seemed too intimidated to push home the questions...
lau lee showed his arrogance by cutting into their questions, and his condescending attitude was hard to watch...
made worse by the people there who weren't trained for debate...
frankly, they could have destroyed lau lee with one sentence in the "arrogance" question: and your arrogantly cutting me off each time i try to say something isn't a sign of your arrogance??
and then to push it home by saying: maybe the kopitiams were right? that you and your ministers and MP have lost sight of reality? what say you?
it would have been a statement disguised as a question, which lau lee could speak all he wanted but would not be able to defend because the damage would have been done...
i could not watch it