NSman collapses and dies during remedial fitness training
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FFI is a joke.
-takes urine sample -
"Any problems - any pains?"
"No, sir"
"Ok..."
-mutters incomprehensibly, signs paper-
"Bye"
As i've said before, the pre, and post enlistment checkup ought to be more stringent. The country OWES us. -
If i m not wrong, u r n officer. we r talking abt a human life. no matter how many condolences there is, it wont b enough 4 his family. let me tell u my incident in my reservist training. 1 of my mates was bitten by a poisoness insect while training. we radioed "them" & it took "them" 2 hr 2 get 2 us. & while we were giving details of how he was bitten & all the mother f u c kers "there" asked were his qualifications. KNNBCCB!!! he is bitten by a poisoness insect!!! ok, story continues. aft help came, took my mate, halfway thru the vehicle broke down & my poor mate devasted & poisoned had 2 wait 4 another transport 4 another 2 hrs. by the time he got 2 hospital was like 5 hrs later. luckyily, he is still aliveOriginally posted by ndsef:I knew someone will bring this topic up and start critcizing the training methods etc of SAF and even PAP. Let me shed some light into this incident.
I am currently doing my RT at Maju Camp as well. Although I am not in the same training batch as LCP Ho, the training directives and methods would have been the same. Not to forget, the weather on Sunday is cool.
Let me brief you guys on what safety precautions are taken before, during and after IPPT or Remedial Training (RT)
At the age of 35, all NSmen who will be attempting IPPT or attending RT have to go through what is known as a FFI. It is a medical examination done in the camp by the Medical Officer to determine the fitness, physical well being of the NS man before he is allowed to attend any of the physical activities. This check is done at the age of 35, 37 and thereafter on a yearly basis until the NS men is release from NS. I personally have seen NS man failing the FFI checks due to high blood pressure.
If the NS Men fails his IPPT then he will have to attend RT at one of the three Fitness Conditioning Centres (FCC). Maju FCC is one of them. Before training, there is a warming up session (which I can tell you is so easy, even teenage gals can do it) the warm up usually last about 10 to 15mins and we are given a 10 minute break.
There will definitely be at least one water point near to the RT venue. After the 10 min break, the PTIs will check with everyone on their physical status before commencing the actual training. During the training, we are given breaks at regular intervals and allowed to fall out if not feeling well.
After the training which usually last less than 2 hrs, there will be a cooling down session followed by a de brief. During this time, the PTIs will check again if anyone is not feeling well.
Trust me, the PTIs never "force" anyone over the limits. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO FALL OUT FROM TRAINING AT ANY TIME!!! A typical RT Schedule last about 2 months.... you think SAF can turn your 2.4km timing from 15 mins to 9.45mins in 2 months? If that's the case, I would suggest the PTIs become instructors for our Young Lions.
Therefore, I conclude that this is really an unforeseen circumstances. IMHO, Maybe LCP Ho was exhausted the day before and didn't sleep well. This would have affected his BP and Heartrate.
My condolences to his family. IMHO, It is really an incident that could not have been prevented by SAF. -
We are indeed talking about human life here. I think the govt shld ban all high colestarol food in hawker centres and restaurants. Go all the way man to promote healthy living and save lives.
Ban pork form Singapore as well, pigs eat shit and make you stupid. -
Ok, that's really bad. Anaphylaxis isn't something that can taken lightly.Originally posted by MRMUSICPRODUCER:If i m not wrong, u r n officer. we r talking abt a human life. no matter how many condolences there is, it wont b enough 4 his family. let me tell u my incident in my reservist training. 1 of my mates was bitten by a poisoness insect while training. we radioed "them" & it took "them" 2 hr 2 get 2 us. & while we were giving details of how he was bitten & all the mother f u c kers "there" asked were his qualifications. KNNBCCB!!! he is bitten by a poisoness insect!!! ok, story continues. aft help came, took my mate, halfway thru the vehicle broke down & my poor mate devasted & poisoned had 2 wait 4 another transport 4 another 2 hrs. by the time he got 2 hospital was like 5 hrs later. luckyily, he is still alive -
well currently i really have to say that this FFI is really too basic to determine if you are fit for tough training.
to that pervious poster who said it involved just a urine sample,i did not even have to do that.My FFI procedure then was just getting a single blood sample for them to test and nothing else.
It is also well known that army MO are idiots.When i just enlisted for NS,during the supposed "medical checkup" to determine my pes status,nothing was done for me,i went in to the room,the MO just asked me this single question:Hmm you think you have any problem you want to highlight? I reply nope i dun think so and immediately based on that i am given Pes A status.Wtf,that is considered a medical checkup?
IMO lots of MO should be charged in court for medical negilence,most of them do not even have the basic moral that their mission is to save life. -
well not surprising.Originally posted by MRMUSICPRODUCER:If i m not wrong, u r n officer. we r talking abt a human life. no matter how many condolences there is, it wont b enough 4 his family. let me tell u my incident in my reservist training. 1 of my mates was bitten by a poisoness insect while training. we radioed "them" & it took "them" 2 hr 2 get 2 us. & while we were giving details of how he was bitten & all the mother f u c kers "there" asked were his qualifications. KNNBCCB!!! he is bitten by a poisoness insect!!! ok, story continues. aft help came, took my mate, halfway thru the vehicle broke down & my poor mate devasted & poisoned had 2 wait 4 another transport 4 another 2 hrs. by the time he got 2 hospital was like 5 hrs later. luckyily, he is still alive
Mine involved a case when i had some serious rash during a outfield exercise,i was sent to the MO outfield cos of it and he gave me some lotion or sort to apply and told me personally himself to come report sick to him when exercise is over so that he will recommend me to get a better check up at national skin center
Guess what,when i went to him after the exercise,he say did i say that? then he insisted that i am trying to malinger and said now get out b4 i charge you for malinger........
To that MO,i say fuck you,you are not fit to be a doctor. -
I think back then you are free from Reservist training after 35. And the stress you get from your job/career is higher now. You may be doing 2 persons job now. Then you go for remedial training and your mind think about the coming deadline. Case of body n mind not in tune. Hmmmmm.....Originally posted by BillyBong:The puzzle is why now? Why not back then when the training was tougher, commanders took greater risk with the men under them and people were significantly less educated in that sense?
Why so many happening now? Is it a medical reason, training issue or quality of manpower problem? -
sad 2 hear tat my frd! i wldnt say there r no ppl who keng but 4 those with a genuine cas, its better 2 b save than sorry. so the f u c king MOs better wake up their f u c king ideas!!! & in most cases, if its n officer whos sick, they will treat them like humans, if its other ranks, gd luck 2 u mateOriginally posted by Aveme:well not surprising.
Mine involved a case when i had some serious rash during a outfield exercise,i was sent to the MO outfield cos of it and he gave me some lotion or sort to apply and told me personally himself to come report sick to him when exercise is over so that he will recommend me to get a better check up at national skin center
Guess what,when i went to him after the exercise,he say did i say that? then he insisted that i am trying to malinger and said now get out b4 i charge you for malinger........
To that MO,i say fuck you,you are not fit to be a doctor. -
MOs who let themselves be pressured by higher authority should be relieved of their post, and the commander who unduly pressures his MOs should be charged too.
There is no excuse. -
The two ways we can have a completely "fit" "reservist" force IMHO is to
a. have ICT twice a week. 3 hours each time where ur unit fall in to do PT and runs.... twice a month additional 4 hour session, endurance runs.
b. to seggreate into "fit" units and "unfit" units, "unfit" units as per normal ICTs,
the fit units (elite) consist of all those who are physically fit and motivated, for these people during ICT they will be compensated 2x to 5x of their equivalent civilian pay depending on performance..... but once they fail to meet the physical and performance standards they will be "reassigned" to the normal units.
it sounds extreme and is politically not doable.... but if u think about it what can u do.
At the end of the day, the question is whether we want a politically correct force or one that is effective. -
Huh..........Originally posted by Salman:PAP should be blamed for allowing high fat food to be sold in hawker centres? They license fees collected are then used to fatten the govt while our people suffer from poor health and death during PT.
This time salman talk like a man.....As he has grown older and wiser. Our government is only interested in sucking money. -
wat to do, most MO I come across uses "Assume Malingering Until Proven Sick" theory.Originally posted by Aveme:well not surprising.
Mine involved a case when i had some serious rash during a outfield exercise,i was sent to the MO outfield cos of it and he gave me some lotion or sort to apply and told me personally himself to come report sick to him when exercise is over so that he will recommend me to get a better check up at national skin center
Guess what,when i went to him after the exercise,he say did i say that? then he insisted that i am trying to malinger and said now get out b4 i charge you for malinger........
To that MO,i say fuck you,you are not fit to be a doctor. -
The fundamental difference is that the "old men" choose to go and watch the movies on their own.Originally posted by ndsef:I beg to differ on this. Sudden Cardiac Arrest can happen at anytime. From your comments, I gather that we can sue the cinema operators for screening RA show and causing elderly men to suffer a heart attack in the cinema?
And read my comments, THE TRAINING IS NOT VIGOROUS AT ALL. In fact the whole idea of the training is to create a habit on us to train frequently, and showing us the correct way to train. Maju OC made it very clear to us on the 1st day of the RT that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to train us up in that short span of time. What he hope to achieve is for us to adopt the good habit of exercising on a regular basis and using the correct training methods.
The NSmen are legally binded to go for RT. -
How can make up training for RT sessions missed due to feeling unwell be taken as a penalty? Would you rather die or do make up training.Originally posted by Ponders:You know, i think there is nothing wrong with current practices.
It is just that official rules are sometimes "improvised" by people on the ground...
e.g.
Official stand: Please rest or sound out if you are not feeling well, if you don't feel well, you may opt out and come back another day.
People on the ground: Anybody not feeling well? Take note if you don't feel well, you will be miss this training and hence subjected to more remedials., etc etc.
The person in question: I miss this training because i am not well i am subjected to penalties... then what's the diff?
This question is made based on the assumption that we are mature adults who know how to take care of our health. But if the individual chooses to undergo the training even though he knows he is not feeling well, then fate is in his own hands. -
hahah... I am not an officer lah... I only "SA TIAO" nia lah no rooftop some more!Originally posted by MRMUSICPRODUCER:If i m not wrong, u r n officer. we r talking abt a human life. no matter how many condolences there is, it wont b enough 4 his family. let me tell u my incident in my reservist training. 1 of my mates was bitten by a poisoness insect while training. we radioed "them" & it took "them" 2 hr 2 get 2 us. & while we were giving details of how he was bitten & all the mother f u c kers "there" asked were his qualifications. KNNBCCB!!! he is bitten by a poisoness insect!!! ok, story continues. aft help came, took my mate, halfway thru the vehicle broke down & my poor mate devasted & poisoned had 2 wait 4 another transport 4 another 2 hrs. by the time he got 2 hospital was like 5 hrs later. luckyily, he is still alive
I do agree with you on the stupidity of SAF sometimes. Take endorsement of MC as an example. If you are sick, you see a private GP who gives you a MC. That MC has to be presented to the RT MO on the day of RT! Question is... if I am sick and I can make my way to camp and see the MO, then I must be not really that sick right? -
no lah you sick but can walk mah only cannot run right? but i do feel its dumb to have to do it on the same dayOriginally posted by ndsef:hahah... I am not an officer lah... I only "SA TIAO" nia lah no rooftop some more!
I do agree with you on the stupidity of SAF sometimes. Take endorsement of MC as an example. If you are sick, you see a private GP who gives you a MC. That MC has to be presented to the RT MO on the day of RT! Question is... if I am sick and I can make my way to camp and see the MO, then I must be not really that sick right? -
At least u got sa tiao!!! I m only (pants broken-in hokkien). Ridiculous of cos. I was doin my reservist once & had high fever. I jus went downstairs 2 my GP & was given 2 days MC. I called back & they asked me 2 go back camp 2 let the MO endorse immediately!!! I m staying in the east & my f u c king camp is way way way west!!! I told them I m sick, they can either call my doc up or send MP 2 my hse. cant b bothered by stupidity!!!Originally posted by ndsef:hahah... I am not an officer lah... I only "SA TIAO" nia lah no rooftop some more!
I do agree with you on the stupidity of SAF sometimes. Take endorsement of MC as an example. If you are sick, you see a private GP who gives you a MC. That MC has to be presented to the RT MO on the day of RT! Question is... if I am sick and I can make my way to camp and see the MO, then I must be not really that sick right? -
Haiz.Stupidity still exists in higher management..what to do.Originally posted by MRMUSICPRODUCER:At least u got sa tiao!!! I m only (pants broken-in hokkien). Ridiculous of cos. I was doin my reservist once & had high fever. I jus went downstairs 2 my GP & was given 2 days MC. I called back & they asked me 2 go back camp 2 let the MO endorse immediately!!! I m staying in the east & my f u c king camp is way way way west!!! I told them I m sick, they can either call my doc up or send MP 2 my hse. cant b bothered by stupidity!!! -
More deaths are expected.
However, note that when doing ur IPPT, we sign a form certifying we are physically fit dat day. So we are our own medical practitioner.
Can i ever sign i'm not fit physically anymore, also the MO@cmpd show me their medical bible for classification purposes and general guidelines.
Dats alot of blesphemy, must i really kill myself to try passing IPPT so as to avoid doing remedial retraining etc. Wat are these top ppl thinking, me working 12-16hrs aday for bread and butter, where got the time to keep fit.
Note: i was really fit as a fiddle before, not anymore. -
wow they trying to absolve responsibility................. again....Originally posted by chainsmoker:More deaths are expected.
However, note that when doing ur IPPT, we sign a form certifying we are physically fit dat day. So we are our own medical practitioner.
Can i ever sign i'm not fit physically anymore, also the MO@cmpd show me their medical bible for classification purposes and general guidelines.
Dats alot of blesphemy, must i really kill myself to try passing IPPT so as to avoid doing remedial retraining etc. Wat are these top ppl thinking, me working 12-16hrs aday for bread and butter, where got the time to keep fit.
Note: i was really fit as a fiddle before, not anymore. -
What if you don't sign.I'm interested in what part of the GOM that states that you must sign the form as YES or be penalised..Originally posted by chainsmoker:More deaths are expected.
However, note that when doing ur IPPT, we sign a form certifying we are physically fit dat day. So we are our own medical practitioner.
Can i ever sign i'm not fit physically anymore, also the MO@cmpd show me their medical bible for classification purposes and general guidelines.
Dats alot of blesphemy, must i really kill myself to try passing IPPT so as to avoid doing remedial retraining etc. Wat are these top ppl thinking, me working 12-16hrs aday for bread and butter, where got the time to keep fit.
Note: i was really fit as a fiddle before, not anymore. -
Strange wat ur asking me.
Have ever done IPPT as reservist unit and have u ever sign no. Then u'd know wat happens... more inconveniences etc. -
I'm not IPPT eligible but I'm a reservist.Pardon my curiosity..but the threat and apparent inconvenience of RTs is something that has to be addressed at a higher level...it's not a win-win situation for both G6 and the NSmen..Originally posted by chainsmoker:Strange wat ur asking me.
Have ever done IPPT as reservist unit and have u ever sign no. Then u'd know wat happens... more inconveniences etc. -
Yea that's cuz their HIGHER management is LOWLY educated.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Haiz.Stupidity still exists in higher management..what to do.
Look at the WOs for example.. PSLE graduates? Sec 2 dropouts?
How can you not expect stupidity to exist? -
Originally posted by loosefuse:
Dude, you can't really take educational qualifications as a gauge of stupidity or intelligence. There are less-educated people who are more logical and reasonable than degree holders. Surely you ought to know that.
Yea that's cuz their HIGHER management is [b]LOWLY educated.
Look at the WOs for example.. PSLE graduates? Sec 2 dropouts?
How can you not expect stupidity to exist? [/b]
There are also A Level/diploma/degree holders among the top commanders, by the way.