NSman collapses and dies during remedial fitness training
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If a health screening was conducted before induction for NS, why can't they conduct another health screening for those who needed Remedial Fitness Training?? Aren't they supposed to check if that same individual is still fit for such vigorous training???
What kind of lame execuse is "such deaths were hard to prevent"?????
Does SAF have to incur a few deaths every year in their training programs???
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SINGAPORE : A national serviceman has collapsed and died after remedial fitness training at Maju Camp.
The Defence Ministry says 35-year-old Lance Corporal Ho Wah Yeng was immediately evacuated to the National University Hospital when he collapsed after 11am on Sunday.
He died about an hour later.
Mindef and the SAF extended their condolences to Ho's family.
Mindef is investigating the incident.
Ho is the fourth serviceman to have collapsed and died this year; two had died in June, and another full time serviceman collapsed during a street soccer game in September.
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean told Parliament in July that there were 19 such cases of sudden cardiac death in the armed forces in the last decade, an incidence rate lower than the national figures of such deaths.
He assured that immediate care was available in such emergencies, but such deaths were hard to prevent. - CNA /ct -
This spat of cardiac arrests cases is probably puzzling the SAF.
For years we trained the same way, maybe even harder but never encountered so many deaths.
Now a sudden explosion. Training methods? Or weak-bodied NSFs? -
I suspect it computer games. Too much computer games.
We didn't have computer games and internet growing and used to spend more time playing sports when growing up.
I think the army needs to lower its standards and expectations soldiers today. -
What the Army needs to do; apply COMMON SENSE and re-evaluate NSmen's health and or fitness level instead of training blindly.
How many more lives must SAF lose before they wake up? -
I tell you what's the problem with SAF.
SAF is always eager to see every reservist gets full and thorough remedial fitness training
but
they are not as eager to see every reservist gets full and thorough medical health screening. Basic FFI by their SAF GP MO -yes but can a GP really spot and identify unusual cases that's beyond their knowledge and do you know when faced with inconclusive test results, instead of getting specialised doctors draw the conclusion, SAF GP MOs take the matter into their own hands and often rate the reservist fully-fit?
It's the bloody SAF GP MOs who are killing reservist men!
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Just lower the bloody standards lah, simple. It doesn't matter even though the standards are already low. That way nobody will die.
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Lack of regular exercise, which in turn causes poor physical fitness, and also high fat diet definitely contributer to the problem. People who don't exercise for most of the the year then last minute chiong to pass IPPT put a lot of strain on their bodies.Originally posted by BillyBong:This spat of cardiac arrests cases is probably puzzling the SAF.
For years we trained the same way, maybe even harder but never encountered so many deaths.
Now a sudden explosion. Training methods? Or weak-bodied NSFs? -
PAP should be blamed for allowing high fat food to be sold in hawker centres? They license fees collected are then used to fatten the govt while our people suffer from poor health and death during PT.
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since when PAP came into the pic?Originally posted by Salman:PAP should be blamed for allowing high fat food to be sold in hawker centres? They license fees collected are then used to fatten the govt while our people suffer from poor health and death during PT. -
The puzzle is why now? Why not back then when the training was tougher, commanders took greater risk with the men under them and people were significantly less educated in that sense?Originally posted by av98m:Lack of regular exercise, which in turn causes poor physical fitness, and also high fat diet definitely contributer to the problem. People who don't exercise for most of the the year then last minute chiong to pass IPPT put a lot of strain on their bodies.
Why so many happening now? Is it a medical reason, training issue or quality of manpower problem? -
Its always convenient for Singaporeans to blame the govt for everything isn't it? Its our Singaporean way of life and nobody can stop us from doing what we want to do.Originally posted by RaTtY81:since when PAP came into the pic? -
Hmm...Liddat how many do we still have when war comes.
Haven starts fighting already lost a few during training...
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Originally posted by Salman:Its always convenient for Singaporeans to blame the govt for everything isn't it? Its our Singaporean way of life and nobody can stop us from doing what we want to do.
quick! IMH! -
Your guess is as good as mine, but people are generally softer and lazier today. Ask them to walk small distance also kow peh. Must take public transport or drive. I even have colleagues who are so lazy most days they'll rather skip lunch or ask people to buy back for them. Piangz.Originally posted by BillyBong:The puzzle is why now? Why not back then when the training was tougher, commanders took greater risk with the men under them and people were significantly less educated in that sense?
Why so many happening now? Is it a medical reason, training issue or quality of manpower problem?
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Its the govt's fault that we are so lazy. They made everything so convenient for us. so many things can be done online nowadays and food is always a stone throw away. How can we not be lazy and unfit?
I found out that it doesn't matter how much water you drink during water parade, if your body is unfit, you will get heat stroke easily. It is the duty of each individual to take care of their health and fitness. -
The sudden cardiac death doesn't happen due to lack of exercise or fat food. The guys who died of such death during training or any other hard physical activity were either training in the gym and taking steroids (that's why steroids are not allowed, they can cause more damage then use) or they had a viral or bacterial infection before, which has damaged the heart (it's not necessary to feel sick during that).
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u expect them 2 pamper u? unless u can play piano loh.
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I knew someone will bring this topic up and start critcizing the training methods etc of SAF and even PAP. Let me shed some light into this incident.
I am currently doing my RT at Maju Camp as well. Although I am not in the same training batch as LCP Ho, the training directives and methods would have been the same. Not to forget, the weather on Sunday is cool.
Let me brief you guys on what safety precautions are taken before, during and after IPPT or Remedial Training (RT)
At the age of 35, all NSmen who will be attempting IPPT or attending RT have to go through what is known as a FFI. It is a medical examination done in the camp by the Medical Officer to determine the fitness, physical well being of the NS man before he is allowed to attend any of the physical activities. This check is done at the age of 35, 37 and thereafter on a yearly basis until the NS men is release from NS. I personally have seen NS man failing the FFI checks due to high blood pressure.
If the NS Men fails his IPPT then he will have to attend RT at one of the three Fitness Conditioning Centres (FCC). Maju FCC is one of them. Before training, there is a warming up session (which I can tell you is so easy, even teenage gals can do it) the warm up usually last about 10 to 15mins and we are given a 10 minute break.
There will definitely be at least one water point near to the RT venue. After the 10 min break, the PTIs will check with everyone on their physical status before commencing the actual training. During the training, we are given breaks at regular intervals and allowed to fall out if not feeling well.
After the training which usually last less than 2 hrs, there will be a cooling down session followed by a de brief. During this time, the PTIs will check again if anyone is not feeling well.
Trust me, the PTIs never "force" anyone over the limits. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO FALL OUT FROM TRAINING AT ANY TIME!!! A typical RT Schedule last about 2 months.... you think SAF can turn your 2.4km timing from 15 mins to 9.45mins in 2 months? If that's the case, I would suggest the PTIs become instructors for our Young Lions.
Therefore, I conclude that this is really an unforeseen circumstances. IMHO, Maybe LCP Ho was exhausted the day before and didn't sleep well. This would have affected his BP and Heartrate.
My condolences to his family. IMHO, It is really an incident that could not have been prevented by SAF. -
I beg to differ on this. Sudden Cardiac Arrest can happen at anytime. From your comments, I gather that we can sue the cinema operators for screening RA show and causing elderly men to suffer a heart attack in the cinema?Originally posted by ShutterBug:If a health screening was conducted before induction for NS, why can't they conduct another health screening for those who needed Remedial Fitness Training?? Aren't they supposed to check if that same individual is still fit for such vigorous training???
What kind of lame execuse is "such deaths were hard to prevent"?????
Does SAF have to incur a few deaths every year in their training programs???
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SINGAPORE : A national serviceman has collapsed and died after remedial fitness training at Maju Camp.
The Defence Ministry says 35-year-old Lance Corporal Ho Wah Yeng was immediately evacuated to the National University Hospital when he collapsed after 11am on Sunday.
He died about an hour later.
Mindef and the SAF extended their condolences to Ho's family.
Mindef is investigating the incident.
Ho is the fourth serviceman to have collapsed and died this year; two had died in June, and another full time serviceman collapsed during a street soccer game in September.
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean told Parliament in July that there were 19 such cases of sudden cardiac death in the armed forces in the last decade, an incidence rate lower than the national figures of such deaths.
He assured that immediate care was available in such emergencies, but such deaths were hard to prevent. - CNA /ct
And read my comments, THE TRAINING IS NOT VIGOROUS AT ALL. In fact the whole idea of the training is to create a habit on us to train frequently, and showing us the correct way to train. Maju OC made it very clear to us on the 1st day of the RT that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to train us up in that short span of time. What he hope to achieve is for us to adopt the good habit of exercising on a regular basis and using the correct training methods. -
there are many more cases of people (NS or non-NS related)dropping dead suddenly during exercise these few years.Originally posted by BillyBong:The puzzle is why now? Why not back then when the training was tougher, commanders took greater risk with the men under them and people were significantly less educated in that sense?
Why so many happening now? Is it a medical reason, training issue or quality of manpower problem?
dun think it's due to the training in NS or wat. the fact is that the occurences of such sudden death are generally higher today, and some of these cases just happened to occur during NS or reservist training -
Well said.
No one wants to see unnecessary deaths but things would inadvertently happen. people die doing all sorts of things, just cos it happens during army training doesn't make it the fault of the SAF. The water dunking rubbish was the fault of the SAF,bad command and control but these deaths during training and stuff..no one should be blamed. -
there should be full body checkup yearly done by true professionals(not saf mo who are stucked in camp) and the fitness demands should be decreased too or even better no iipt...
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You know, i think there is nothing wrong with current practices.
It is just that official rules are sometimes "improvised" by people on the ground...
e.g.
Official stand: Please rest or sound out if you are not feeling well, if you don't feel well, you may opt out and come back another day.
People on the ground: Anybody not feeling well? Take note if you don't feel well, you will be miss this training and hence subjected to more remedials., etc etc.
The person in question: I miss this training because i am not well i am subjected to penalties... then what's the diff? -
On hindsight, we know he's not fit for IPPT or RT. That's an understatement - the truth is he's not medically ok for IPPT or RT!
What went wrong didn't lie with RT training. What went wrong was his FFI health screening.
Imo, his MO botched his FFI health screening. -
isnt it true that such deaths occurs only in recent years?