Can anyone cmment on this.
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By paying our president/PM equivalent of US President say US200,000 per annum, we will be unduly generous. Like you say, how much is high ? Should they try to equate their pays with Bill Gate or Wee Cho Yaw? There is no end except that in being a leaders there is expected to be intangible benefits of all kinds, like fame and prestige and getting directorships after retirements.Originally posted by Salman:But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions.
Moreover without citizens' moral blessing they have gone unilaterally to pass their own life-long annuities at 2/3 of such hyper salaries and that imposes a great burden on the population. At one last estimate the combined annuities payable to some 80 retiring MPs and Ministers would cost people some S$1000,000,000.00 enough monies to build an MRT. -
Embezzle money got pressure one meh?Originally posted by Salman:But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions. -
peanuts lorOriginally posted by anhydrouscoppersulphate:how about durai's salary? -
Yeah sure..Originally posted by Cindyfeh:He seems to be doing a fantastic job at minimising croynism. -
You see, our ministers and president are very well paid, respectable and charitable people. I am sure they will split their salaries with their friends so that the friends do not need their helps to find jobs in the gov boards or GLC companies.Originally posted by SilverPal:Clear explanation... But once again Cindyfeh, you sure sg doesn't have "cronyism"?
Every time I see a rich kid driving a porcshe or ferrari, I will be super happy. It means that the rich kid is well taken care of by his father and need not be cronyed into his father controlled gov board or GLC. -
Do you see President Bush go jogging at America's east coast every day and talking to other joggers? I will say such friendliness expressed by singapore president is priceless! We should reflect on how low we are paying him. Perhaps we should pay singapore president S$4 million so that he can hire a deputy and have even more free time to jog, such as jogging at changi beach, etc.Originally posted by pearlie27:cindyfeh,
our president is paid US$1+ million but in local currency it is $2+ millions you know? -
I was responding to your msg, no comment was made on the comparison in the original post.Originally posted by Salman:But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions.
Our ministers salaries are justified in comparison with salaries of CEO of major corporations. But they forgot that as ministers of the states come along the power that CEO do not have. And there seems little check on the use of such power.
How high is high? what about Bill Gate's salary? or the wealth of the Sultan of Brunei? Do our "civil servants" serve only because of the salaries? will they continue to serve if their salaries were a little lower? if it is only money that they serve, will they stay here if there were any problem in singapore?
I question the moral credibility of the ministers if the justification for such high salaries is to prevent them from "embezzling hundreds of millions"!
Is money ever enough? if our ministers are likely to "embezzle hundreds of millions" if there were not paid enough, and with the lack of a check on their power, it would only be a matter of time when somebody in power feels that they have not enough, and they will just take what they want, and nobody can stop them.
Nothing about america. -
you do have a point there.Originally posted by sgdiehard:I question the moral credibility of the ministers if the justification for such high salaries is to prevent them from "embezzling hundreds of millions"!
Is money ever enough? if our ministers are likely to "embezzle hundreds of millions" if there were not paid enough, and with the lack of a check on their power, it would only be a matter of time when somebody in power feels that they have not enough, and they will just take what they want, and nobody can stop them.
but...
as it stands, there isn't anything much that you can do about it now is there? whether they're paid $1 or $1,000,000 becomes absolutely irrelevant when so much power is seated on a single party.
i personally wouldn't bother griping about their pay. it's just the way our country works... anything to keep the clock ticking.
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Originally posted by larrenV2.003:
I am shocked at reading this ley...all the income taxes we pay all goes to the govt. Only in certain situations they will upgrade the flats or build new roads etc...to cover up...ar..issit
Singapore Ministers' Basic Annual Salaries (without performance bonuses)
[b]Singapore President's Basic Salary: US$1,483,000 (SGD$2,373,100)
Singapore Prime Minister's Basic Salary: US$1,100,000 (SGD1,958,000)
Minister's Basic: US$655,530 to US$819,124 (SGD1,166,844 to SGD1,458,040) a year
Average Singaporean: US$26,000 (SGD43,104 or SGD3,592 per mo)
Source: Singapore Ministry of Manpower
United States of America
President: US$200,000
Vice President: US$181,400
Cabinet Secretaries: US$157,000
Source: Asian Wall Street Journal July 10 2000.
Singapore President's salary which was updated in 2005 from the Singapore Straits Times.
i wonder if we pay high taxes to fulfill the above mentioned?[/b] -
One word....Originally posted by Keropo:I am shocked at reading this ley...all the income taxes we pay all goes to the govt. Only in certain situations they will upgrade the flats or build new roads etc...to cover up...ar..issit
YAH!!!![/b] -
please pay the millions yourself. dun tell us to pay for uOriginally posted by Salman:But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions.
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Being aware of the situation and doing nothing about the situation are two different things. The fact that nothing is done does not mean we are not aware of the situation or accepting the situation.Originally posted by nomood:you do have a point there.
but...
as it stands, there isn't anything much that you can do about it now is there? whether they're paid $1 or $1,000,000 becomes absolutely irrelevant when so much power is seated on a single party.
i personally wouldn't bother griping about their pay. it's just the way our country works... anything to keep the clock ticking.
They will never be paid $1 but if they were paid a lower salary then there is one less reason for griping about. Again the question is, if they were paid less, will the clock stop ticking, the country won't work?? -
yup you're quite right on both accounts.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Being aware of the situation and doing nothing about the situation are two different things. The fact that nothing is done does not mean we are not aware of the situation or accepting the situation.
They will never be paid $1 but if they were paid a lower salary then there is one less reason for griping about. Again the question is, if they were paid less, will the clock stop ticking, the country won't work??
however, i was suggesting that perhaps the main issue here isn't the amount they're being paid, but rather the amount of control that they have stumbled upon. that kindda makes debating their pay very pointless, don't you think? i mean, even if they were paid $1 a month, they could still conceivably give themself a bonus of $999,999. and you still can't do anything about that.
wherehence lies the issue in how much they pay themselves?
the rhetorical question of whether the country will work or not remains entirely debatable. but certainly, it would change the entire dynamics of how our country functions, which i think currently seems to operate fine on various levels. i'm not saying it won't work, but we don't know how things will turn out now, do we? -
could it be that Bush is so busy with all the matters of government that he has no time to jog as much as he likes to whereas our good old chap doesn't have much to do and so can afford to jog everyday?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Do you see President Bush go jogging at America's east coast every day and talking to other joggers? I will say such friendliness expressed by singapore president is priceless! We should reflect on how low we are paying him. Perhaps we should pay singapore president S$4 million so that he can hire a deputy and have even more free time to jog, such as jogging at changi beach, etc.
let's see, $400,000 to slog versus $2million to jog ... hmmm ... dun mind being paid $2million to jog ... -
i don't deny the fact that low pay leads to corruption as exemplified by many third world countries, but it doesn't sanctify the converse of astronomical high pays.
we can all agwee that we do not want corruption so let us not compare with countries like philippines. let us compare with countries that like us have little corruption, countries such as Finland, Denmark or New Zealand. How much are their leaders being paid?
if we say we pay our leaders according to performance of the country, then in terms of per capita GDP, how much better do we fare compared to say Hong Kong? How much lesser are their leaders getting? -
there are other benchmarks. dun have the exact figures but let's say on a ball part basis:Originally posted by Cindyfeh:USA : 300 million population, President annual pay is $200K
Singapore: 4 million population, so president annual pay should be $2.6k.
average US citizen earns US $20,000
US president's pay of US $200,00 would be 10 times the average citizen, still acceptable.
average singaporean earns SGD $20,000
our leader's pay of $2 million would be 100 times that of a commoner!
is that fair?
every time there is an economic downturn, our salaries get adjusted down so in the end the commoners weather the storms. because our salaries are so low, any downward adjustment brings us closer to subsistence levels. if i'm paid $2 million, i would'nt bother if they shave off 10% in bad times coz i'd still be getting a comfortable $1.8 million! yet, there are people who feel so pinched when they see $200,000 taken from their $2million! -
That is why the only people who will give their views and facts are we forumers as newspapers, Elected President, MPs, NMPs, Senior people in public and private sector, Community leaders, grassroot leaders are no longer speaking for us the ordinary people.Originally posted by snow leopard:there are other benchmarks. dun have the exact figures but let's say on a ball part basis:
average US citizen earns US $20,000
US president's pay of US $200,00 would be 10 times the average citizen, still acceptable.
average singaporean earns SGD $20,000
our leader's pay of $2 million would be 100 times that of a commoner!
is that fair?
every time there is an economic downturn, our salaries get adjusted down so in the end the commoners weather the storms. because our salaries are so low, any downward adjustment brings us closer to subsistence levels. if i'm paid $2 million, i would'nt bother if they shave off 10% in bad times coz i'd still be getting a comfortable $1.8 million! yet, there are people who feel so pinched when they see $200,000 taken from their $2million!
That is the reason why people have to speak up and exercise their rights as citizens without fear or favor or being brainwashed.
Now during pre-election time there will be more good-looking presentations in news about talents or abilities of their scholars and elites (who kept quiet without solutions during last two recessions) and all the hypes about past achievements when such presentations are not their results but of external forces and corrections. Income levels of majority of Singaporeans and their assets have dropped to the lowest in many years. Costs have gone up.
Until there is a total understanding of the problems faced in failures to adapt to technological changes in world environments and creating the correct level of technology catch-up and start-ups, the whole system becomes totally sold to elitism on fallacies of media hype and presentations like the NKF during Durai. The whole system is not willing to open up for accountable governance and all the scholars are just trying to use market forces to justify their existence. There is a critical need to get real and be truly competitive. -
tot is wellknown, peanuts niah...not worth mentioning....Originally posted by anhydrouscoppersulphate:how about durai's salary? -
I still fail to see what the big commotion is about.
At the end of the day, even if they were to pay themselves less it only serves to give the citizens/PRs a false and empty sense of satisfaction.
what would lowering their salaries do? what does it answer and, what is it a solution to?
a classic example is trying to benchmark their salary. taking snow_leopards analogy where he seems to suggest that we should peg their pay to a 'commoner's' pay (which i shall take to be the average salary in singapore) it's fair to say that might serve as an incentive to make our ministers work harder. but it still does not address the issue of singaporean's average wage. what, did you think that the money would return to us in the form of tax returns? or ERS?
As in the case of T.T Durai, there were already whispered rumours that he was using NKF's fund excessively since 2001. but that didn't serve to change anything until he stubbed his own toe.
which i suspect is what we're all doing. sit around and pray that their salary will drop. if not, we'll just suck it up and leave it.
like it or not, that has always been the singaporean way. we are too myopic in all senses of the way, and quabble about silly things which, at the end of the day, is really just a superficial problem.
my stand is simple. their pay dosen't concern me at all, or at least not in the sense of how happy it will make me. what concerns me more is that they're doing their job, and i'm still living a relatively ok/good life.
if not, i'll simply migrate, as have many 'quitters' demonstrated. oh well...
ps: i don't agree with the quitter label btw -
Please lar my father earn more than 4 times what that poll suggested of average Singaproeans
my father 2 months can earn more than what people earn in a year -
To Mrs Goh Chok TongOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:peanuts lor -
You really think that our esteemed leaders will split their salary with their friends? You're kidding right? I believe they will use their influence to allow their friends to enter high positions, and that IS cronyism.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:You see, our ministers and president are very well paid, respectable and charitable people. I am sure they will split their salaries with their friends so that the friends do not need their helps to find jobs in the gov boards or GLC companies.
Every time I see a rich kid driving a porcshe or ferrari, I will be super happy. It means that the rich kid is well taken care of by his father and need not be cronyed into his father controlled gov board or GLC.
Is it a coincidence that all who are related to the emperor by blood and marriage happen to be high flyers? Or maybe it could be cronyism?
As for your second paragraph, I sure hope you are joking because you sound very sarcastic.
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Yeah, and if we give him the entire country reserve for our president, he'll live on the beach!!! this kind of sarcrifice is more than priceless!!! Its worthless!!!Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Do you see President Bush go jogging at America's east coast every day and talking to other joggers? I will say such friendliness expressed by singapore president is priceless! We should reflect on how low we are paying him. Perhaps we should pay singapore president S$4 million so that he can hire a deputy and have even more free time to jog, such as jogging at changi beach, etc.
If our president jogs as often as we are led to believe, he'd be fitter than the emperor... Which as we can see is not the case... -
[quote]Originally posted by Salman:
But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions.
How much is high... put US aside 1st. Economic/standards closest to Sg, around Asian - HK, TWN, JP, KR, MY, AU & so on. which countries' leaders have the highest salaries?
U mean the ONLY solution to prevent embezzlement is by paying millions to the leaders, & countries' leaders who are paid less, is under pressured of embezzlement? - If that happens, something is not right about the 'SYSTEM' and not entirely about the pay. -
Why must our mini-stars keep blackmailing themselves for higher pay? If they are as upright and moral as the young emperor keeps harping, maybe they should not hae stooped so low as to blackmail themselves, nor give in to their own blackmails???
Originally posted by Salman:
But aren't you comparing Singapore with US?
Too high? How much is too high? Where do you draw the line? I'll rather pay them millions than put them under pressure to embezzle hundreds of millions.